Progressive artists, conservative groups.

acheron.org % discussions: ANSI Discussion: Progressive artists, conservative groups.
By
Ill give you one good guess... on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 02:32 pm:

Filename: UU7-SALT.ANS in the new pack AVENGE11.ZIP contains the following text: "recipe for eliteness: One (1) WhiteTrash pic. One (1) Cthulu Lit. One (1) Creator Logo. now you're cooking!"
Clearly my contribution to this work was valued - the artist requested it specifically from me, and the group administration liked it enough to release it despite the fact that they maintain a no-lit policy. I was complemented on the IRC for another poem I'd written which appeared in that pack. The situation seems clear: members of the art scene, even ansi artists who are members of exclusive art groups - do and can enjoy lit as an artform. The artists like it! They ASK me for it. Even group leaders ask me for it. But they would never, ever release it outside of an ansi. Where has this bias come from?
Why do the groups refuse to support a form of art that the artists clearly do support? And why have the other artists allowed this discrimination to go on for so long when they do support my hard work? My writings have appeared in any 4 of 5 top-5 groups you'd care to name at any given moment over the past 4 years - ACiD, iCE, Integrity, Samsara, Fire, Dark, Teklordz, Legend, Twilight, Legion, Avenge... they've all eagerly accepted gifts of lit from me wrapped in ansi, often of their own providing - but they refuse to accept it straight. I appear in the VTAG, which is more than most of you can say, so who are you to say that I don't have a place in this ansi art scene?
Through my actions and my intentional inclusion in a forum where my work will actually get SEEN (inside ansis), I would like to think that I've proven that lit can be good (or at least worthwhile to read.) This tactic, however, has failed - groups view me personally as a valuable product, but as somehow not belonging to that vague, amorphous and assumedly crappy mass known as "lit". (I view this as doubly ironic, given that much of my released-in-ansi writing is of my worst quality level - a poem about a BBS name can only get so good...) Why do artists support my artform, while the groups only support me as a unique artist?
People will tell me that I'm the exception to the rule, that I'm the only good lit writer. I tell them that theirs is an opinion bred of ignorance - I would rank myself only 5th at best among those other writers who have appeared in Mistigris packs (behind Livewire, Bast, Agnostic, Zamfir Worshipper, Crowkeeper and perhaps others...) but who will never be known of in the scene not because their art wasn't good, but because they refused to sell out and package it in the more glamourous shell of an ansi. I'm not the best writer - I'm the best attention whore. (Note: in recent months I have been surpassed in this capacity by Blue Devil.)
Groups don't want to admit that lit is a legitimate artform, and by refusing to release it, they ensure that the only lit which is seen is that which is created by those who concentrate more on matters political than artistic, those with enough beans to put a lit group together without checking first to see if they actually have anything legitimate, interesting or even articulate to say. Thus is our 'new lit', existing only to prove to the rest of the scene that most lit isn't worth releasing, because the people most concerned with being seen are least worth seeing, seeking attention as its own means rather than any artistic achievement as an ultimate goal.
If big groups allow good writing to be seen as legitimate alongside good drawing and good composition, a standard will be set and more good writing will follow. As an individual, I cannot set that standard for others, only a personal one. As a group leader, I cannot set that standard because only an insignificant portion of the scene a) views Mistigris packs and b) bothers to read the lit inside of them.
Leaders of the large groups today (you know who you are) have it within their power to encourage the cultivation of writing as an equal and legitimate artform full of as much potential and possibility as any graphic artform by allowing the release of straight text in their packs and the intent of keeping its quality level high as a prestige factor. DON'T take it if it's bad just to support lit, but DO take it if it's good, because supporting good work encourages more good work. Ignoring that rule will make the good writers leave the scene and seek another audience, while the bad writers (with bad motives, you will remember) will just form roving gangs and demand to be paid attention to.
As an artist - as a member of the art scene, you have the potential to enact this change. You have the potential to reverse the ghettoization process which has culminated in Scrollz. (don't defend it, or promote it for that matter, unless you've actually read it and believe it to be quality material.) Ask RadMan why he kicked out Israfel. Ask iCE to reinstate their lit department. Write up your group leader and ask him why he refuses to support writing as a legitimate artform. If the group's administration isn't synchronous with the opinions of its members, on what basis is it legitimately run?
Without a diverse interpretation of what art can be, any group is destined to obscurity in the new mediasphere. For groups that plan only to be active in the short term, this isn't a concern (but likewise, if you're not going to hang around long enough to leave a real impact why bother at all?) but by ignoring this most venerable form of human communication through language to convey experience and thought, you castrate yourself at your inception and prevent yourself from ultimately reaching people effectively.
The ansi art scene is currently a dog that only does one trick, but does it well. The more tricks you have, the more artforms at your command, the more weapons in your arsenal, the more choices you have at your disposal to realize creative impulses. Are we serious about being artists, or are we just geeks looking for a substitute for a social life? Support all forms or drop the pretentions of artistry - go back to your craft and we'll be amused to find your archaic workings still being practiced by backwoods hicks into the next century.


By Dangermouse on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 05:03 pm:

Can it be Cthulu? :)

Yes, I understand where you are coming from on this, and I can only say that I agree with you (again)..

If any group leaders out there want to have their say on this matter then by all means speak up. Maybe we should start a list of "lit safe" groups..


By Nitnatsnoc on Wednesday, December 2, 1998 - 07:42 pm:

I think it's pretty simple why lit has such a hard time getting accepted in this scene: it's because the scene we're dealing with is that of visual artists'. Although there are many vital visual components to poetry, and any respectful analysis of poetry would address the issue, this type of literature is generally considered more cerebral. In an audience full of people wanting cheap eye-candy ("Oh my god, I can see that comic book chick's NIPPLES!"), it's only natural for a more scholastic artform to be disregarded ("Oh no, I have to READ. And THINK.")
Now of course, the point has been made that (by Cthulu himself.. surprise, surprise) that Cthulu has been showered with praise when his written work is framed inside an ansi. That doesn't necessarily mean that the ansi scene is ready to accept lit with open arms. What the congratulatory statements mean is that the audience and the artists have taken a liking to poetry as an enhancer of ansis; a selling point, like, say, a conveniently placed cup holder in a car. People will buy the car because they want a car, and will be pleased to find a cup holder, but the car is still essential what the buyer wanted.
Hm, perhaps a better analogy is in order. I believe Cthulu's lits are appreciated in the same way an intricate Spanish guitar solo may be seen as a neat lil' interlude in a pop or rock song. People may say, "Hey, that Spanish guitar solo was cool," but most likely won't inspire a huge Christmas rush for albums containing nothing but the work of a Spanish guitarist.
All this conjecture being said, I'd like to point out that I DO like reading, studying, analyzing and writing poetry. A good writer can thoroughly stimulate my mind. I just don't have enough faith in the ansi scene to believe that literature by scenesters can ever be considered a legitimate art form because, quite simply because the demographics are frightening.
By all means, though, for the sake of your art and your ilk, dear writers, fight if you must.
To those who do not read lit for the sake of it being lit, you're missing out on top notch art, even if there is no shading or bulging muscles of which to speak.
To those of you who harm the fragile respect the poets barely get with substandard literature for the sake of being involved in a scene, reconsider your actions.


By Halaster on Friday, December 11, 1998 - 09:14 pm:

I always considered Fire a visual art group, which was why I hesitated to release stand-alone lit within it. The bias existed because of the way I defined the group - "Lit" is not a visual medium.

I write poetry myself, and I happen to think that cth's poetry is quite good. I've always respected Mistigris for having a dedicated lit division, even if it's not the way I went with Fire.

Regarding Fire's other non-visual attempts: We did tinker with music from time to time, but that was usually another senior-staffer's influence, not mine. I think we probably had music in about 5 of the 30 packs.

*shrug* There are always mags. You could also choose to withhold your work from groups that have anti-stand-alone lit policies. :)

BTW: I hate the term "lit" :)

Love,

Halaster/Fire