Is scene really this pathetic?
What exactly is Tomppa1 getting at, here? The Knave certainly seems, to me, to have a unique style. I've seen Tomppa1's artwork before, and although there are some similarities, they're not all the close.
Count Zero,
Hehehe. Tomi has no shame in busting loose with stuff like this. :)
I was sitting here at the computer on a sunny saturday, chatting with a few people on IRC and then a few of my friends allude me to the fact that there is a slandering discussion about me on Acheron.
One more thing. Ive decided not to quit because that would probably be just as immature. Im going to release my art, if people like it, thats cool. If not, they can deal with it and keep on comparing me to tomppa1. Sure Im not as good as tomppa1, and maybe I AM doing stuff that tomppa1 did 10x better two years ago. Does that mean I should be slandered left and right? Does that mean I should quit? I am trying my best, drawing what I see in my mind. Thats it.
It's sad that one has to come here and find garbage like this. While ACiD may continue to have some haughty opinions of how 'artistic' they feel they are, Knave's work continues to be fresh and fun as evidenced by the number of votes for him.
Blah blah blah. This is no longer about an individual, but about a feud that died in 1992.
No one seemed to take notice of the fact that I'm not a member of acid. :P I don't really appreciate just being grouped with them in this automatic ice vs acid reaction.
It is possible to be influenced by other styles -- but also just as possible for someone to create a style that is similar to someone elses..
God, it was so hard to resist power-bombing this whole bullshit discussion.
I agree with dangermouse and God Among Lice, and im glad you allowed yourselves to see that someone can be influenced. Most good artists have influences. I was greatly influenced by tomppa1, and by several other artists as well. In my career as an artist, I have found myself drawing for surf companies and skate companies in the area that have developed my style as it is. San Clemente is a virtual headquarters for surf nostalgia and funky graphics. I grew up airbrushing surfboards with funky linework and abstact crosshatched pieces that is actually a commonplace style among surf artists. Its just that alot of these local artists never venture into the realm of hirez art in the scene because they dont have the intelligence to use a computer.
heheh.. this came even more fun that i thought.
Lice asked the source of that quota i used. i dunno if i did right when i took it from hirez.org's preview BUT that just made me so angry. yes, the article is funny (as everyother from him or interviews) - "Steps to a Hirez Masterpiece". seems like he doesnt know what he's talking about. "for now some people really just need direction" ; i think he's knave himself.
Tomppa1, I have respect for you, but I dont see why you need to go as far as comparing our works with URLs. A million people have told me that they see very little similarity in our works. Thats the bottom line. I know you want to discount me as a ripping artist, but the fact remains that I focus on being creative in any way I can. Now we can continue this fued or simply let it rest and I'll go back to drawing, because I dont have the time to defend myself over trivial matters that seem bigger than they really are. I have a style and you have a style, we both have influences and people like our art because its stylin in every sense of the word. Take care and keep on drawin (dont keep glancing over your shoulder for people tryin to "steal" your style, cause that just aint happenin.)
tomppa1-
knave:
Tomppa, first of all, we would all benefit if you would drop your enormous ego. What do you have to gain from putting another artist down? I agree that Knave's logo's look a bit similar to yours, and if Knave were to limit himself to simply making logos like some people, I wouldn't like his stuff as much. Knave creates interesting complete pieces of artwork, not just a few logos. These are absolutly his own style. If Knave was influenced by your style, I would think that you would be flattered, not upset.
Tomppa1-
I wanted to just reply to Tomppa's "proof" of Knave ripping his art.
You know, I was thinking about this whole matter today and I realized how absurd this whole "ripping" thing really is when it comes to style.
to me graffitti logos aint art.
Tomppa1, I've known you for a little while now dude, but granted its mainly just been the passing hello here and there.. What I can't understand here is that you claim he has RIPPED your style. You cannot wholey rip someone's style, without having some creative input from one's own artistic abilities.
> thank you and goodnigth. And yes what the fuck
My left nut sack weighs 18 grams thankyou very much!
This whole conversation has gone from being out of hand to full-blown retarded. Having been in Acid once upon a time and now in Ice (and on good terms with just about everyone), I think I know plenty about the long-standing rivalry. And I feel more than qualified to point out the problems with certain individuals' opinions on the matter.
Go Outside.
By Darkmage "As for proving that the style in question has been all over ghetto walls for years, well, go rent a lame ass 70's movies that takes place in some urban environment, and you will see it." You're wrong if you look at any graffiti from the 70's its not even close to what tompas style is, even today, his style of graffiti type letters is consider unique, ask anyone who actually knows about graffiti, I've been writing for 5 years and from all the traveling I've been through, graffiti hiphop conventions, and graffiti flix I've seen I have yet to see a style simular to tomppas, his style is not what you think is mainstream graffiti, so for the knave to have a style of letters that looks like tompas I think tompa has every right to be upset... apek oner bs fr
you are all very wierd...
[root:]
inazone>Tomi & Jason: Obviously, you guys have a >personal
Sorry to interupt this discussion guys, but Radman, do you have any more ACiD beanies left? I'll only buy one if there is a logo by tomppa1 on it that I can steal.
I don't really think this discussion is getting anywhere guys :) We all have our opinions on this one, and well, its getting a bit silly.. I'm sure we all agree on that :>
I AM FREAKING OUT!
This thread hasn't proved much...
Check it folks.
ok fellas..
knave, i didnt read your last posting before i replied. ok. i like "your" old stuff, no doubt. it's 100% better than the new style your drawing now with more or less influences to other ppl's styles.
think about how cool is the idea of the awards. and how waited it was.
but once again in big crowds of people there's always a bunch of loosers who are fucking the whole thing up.
then there's the cheaters and rippers like The knave /ice
trying to get fame on scene with imitating other people's ideas and styles and claiming them to be
own.
"People like to see my art because I have a certain style, a sense of linework and coloring that is unique to me and me alone."
is fame on scene really so important? uh.
well, with "borrowing" the ideas of others you never just get ahead.
art means style, and style is what you'll really find, so be true to yourself, don't RIP. otherwise there's just no meaning around.
once again, scene has never meant to be artistic, just some pictures for bbs's.. so let the children play for fame.
By Count zero on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 07:01 am:
By RaD Man on Friday, December 4, 1998 - 11:19 pm:
As you clearly didn't know (we never made a huge scene about it) -- The Knave was discharged from ACiD due to several counts of plagiarism.
More than one example can be found in ACiD Acquisition Update 69, we're just glad we caught it early.
His new "style" leaves a bad taste in my mouth because to me it looks like someone trying to do what Tomppa1 was doing 2 years ago. While that's just my opinion, the rest is all fact.
-r
By God among lice on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 01:48 am:
I wouldn't go so far as to call it ripping, but he's got a good point... I dunno where that quote's from, but it's total bullshit for the knave to call his art unique and his own. Like radman said.. I've seen Tomppa1 doing the same kind of stuff (and 10x better, imo) 2 years ago.
The sheer originality of tomi's style and the obvious borrowing by the knave make me wonder how the hell he can actually say something like that.
Anyone mind telling me where that quote is from, if they know? I feel like being humored by some more of the knave's comments.
By The knave on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 12:46 pm:
Normally I would ignore this kind of stuff cause it's just scene stuff that usually gets blown out of proportion, but this was too much. As far as im concerned the line has been crossed and the scene just isnt practical anymore.
You know, Im 20 years old, I live in San Clemente, CA and this is my style. Ive been drawing freehand vine-stuff for so long and it took getting a scanner to prove that I could draw (to discount the alleged plagurism piece in which I did not credit an artist). If you guys are that immature and need proof of my style, email me and I'll send you my home address so you can come over and view my dated material. I can do nothing more.
Ive come to a crossroad where the scene is more of a thorn in my side than it is fun. Although im one of the nicest guys around, I draw logos for people left and right, the acid crew always seems to be able to round up some opposition against me. I have no idea why, but thats the way it is.
Due to the immaturity of RadMan & Tomppa1, I think I may be quiting the scene. Since you guys cant get along and keep taking stabs at me out of nowhere, its time to kill this whole affair so I can cut my stress level down to a minimum.
Thanks guys, I appreciate all this. And to all you guys in the scene who appreciate my material, you can thank these fine ACiD memebers and their great level of maturity.
By The knave on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 01:11 pm:
By Mass Delusion on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 02:23 pm:
If we want to talk about originality, can anyone even _count_ the number of airbrushed skulls released in ACiD packs? Doubtful.
As I see it, it's the pot calling the kettle black.
Of course the other way to see it is that being on top means you're always a marked man, and Knave has obviously won over the support of the scene by being a generous and friendly guy. It's too bad that people have nothing better to do with their time than prove their immaturity by posting about what a lamer xxxx is.
Way to go ACiD, keep up the good work.
-Mass Delusion / iCE Senior Staff
By Cthulu of Mistigris on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 06:17 pm:
By God among Lice on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 08:02 pm:
Just to try and patch things up here.. I feel lousy for assuming and saying that the knave was just borrowing tomppa1's style, when it's just as likely that he's come up with it entirely on his own.
I was mostly just reacting to the claims of uniqueness, since I'd been following tomppa1's style for a while and then started seeing stuff from the knave that invariably made me think of tomppa1 whenever I saw it. There are obvious parallels here. Let's now just say that neither are entirely unique, and I'll be perfectly willing to shut up. :)
kudos to the knave for deciding not to leave over something as admittedly silly as this.
By Dangermouse on Saturday, December 5, 1998 - 09:24 pm:
Nothing is truly unique in the world anymore, you should all know that.. Everyone borrows from everyone else, all the time.. That is how civilisation became what it is today.
We are human afterall.
By CatBones on Sunday, December 6, 1998 - 12:37 am:
What really gets up my ass is SOME fucker from a second line group always has to try to dredge up their delusional 'bbs-ansi-daze' fantasies about group superiority and the absolute hilarity of "competition - and being nice means a bunch" when it has NOTHING to do with the conversation.
Personally I wish that any "scene artist" who doesn't live and breath art and likes to think of this as all a hobby would just get the fuck out of the scene.
Some of us have our own delusions about seeing this evolve into something that is actually respected and revered by the greater art world.
You "funboy hobbyist" types are just dead fucking weight.
You go doodle tunez and render commercial pulp 3d, and i'll go airbrush a fucking skull.
From there: get out of my face.
By The knave on Sunday, December 6, 1998 - 01:32 am:
I happened to stumble across it and use my style in my hirez.
By Tomppa1 on Monday, December 7, 1998 - 01:33 am:
if someone borrows my style it's ok - no problemo.. but on individual level (nothing
to do with groups (thus this acid-ice comparisation has nothing to do with this))
when someone keeps on telling everywhere on articles or interviews about HIS fucking style or sells (make money with)
my ideas i CAN't just let this go. too much is too much. it's same as stealing other's cars.
i have no elitism on myself that i'm keeping on - i just want the right credits for right people.
i'm not telling people how to make _great_ works as knave is. i'm just kicking his own elitism down
as he doesnt need it this time.
for you pathetic guys that doesnt seem to see any similarities go compare following styles and deside yourselves.
how about countzero?
http://www.ice.org/~knave/graffiti.htm (and all logos on hirez.htm)
http://www.sci.fi/~tomppa1/kuvat/TH-TUTO.JPG
all logo fillingstyles whatever are RIPPED.
http://www.ice.org/~knave/images/hirez.htm (image0.jpg)
http://www.sci.fi/~tomppa1/pencilabstracts.html
http://www.sci.fi/~tomppa1/pencilabstracts2.html
i don't need to explain where all the bubbles of my style (especially from the image of black&white fishwork from acid60-68(dunno the name), crossshading shit's, or other
Knave's "ideas" have come from. all from me. maybe knave's aliens or suns are original. for me they just
look that general graffiti kinda imagenery. nothing wrong with that and long live ArtCrimes.
and if my style is so general, go and search me samples of other artists doing similar style. any?
Knave's graffitis are 100% my rips with poor translation.
if on ansiscene someone rips everyone cares. on hirez, looks like noone cares, and i haven't since now because
i don't want to see my ideas credited by others
anymore. because there is so strong plageterism on scene there
would be no more tutorials from me as people are
what they are..
i just tell you if you know even a little about drawing you know that the random generation of styles
can't be same especially on little Hirez-scene. are you guys so fucking stupid really? no stinky explanations. sure anyone can imitate
my hard work of years and join ice after been busted from ripping images from other artists to produce pictures of copied ideas with even filling
the areas with same multiplylayercoloring method i've been explained on irc, emails or tutorials or whatever.
that's fucking low when it's about ART. the results aren't even same, they doesn't live. find someone to tell you.
true artists make even songs with handling their dicks pissing into the wc.
long live knave's abstract style that even aren't abstract.
on artscene there haven't been as strong ripping as this never before.
i'm spoken.
By Tomppa1 on Monday, December 7, 1998 - 03:36 am:
for massd: who cares about votes? scene doesn't know a shit about art. does it matter how fresh and funny the images are? Knave's works just aren't "fresh". i won't talk about group that i'm with, but go check HRG#22 cause it's fresh.
"It's too bad that people have nothing better to do with their time than prove their immaturity by posting about what a lamer xxxx is. "
it's too bad when a group have to be so low that everyone fit's in. no matter what they are ripping.
but maybe that's ok for a picturegroup like Ice is.
By The knave on Monday, December 7, 1998 - 10:34 am:
Peace out.
By Darkmage on Monday, December 7, 1998 - 11:09 am:
-"and if my style is so general, go and search me samples of other artists doing similar style"
Fuck that. This style you apparently think you are the sole creator of has been spray painted all over ghetto walls for years now. Are you fucking special for being the first one to bring it to the almighty "scene" you keep ranting about?
Were you even the first person in existence to figure out how to scan and color?
-"method i've been explained on irc, emails or tutorials or whatever"
If you didn't want anyone to use it, why the fuck did you spread it all over irc, emails, tutorials, or wherever the fuck else you opened your mouth.
Bunch of whining little bitches.
By Tomppa1 on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 02:35 am:
well, then don't talk about creativity if you doesnt know what it means, nor about art.
you just seem to justify your words with things like scenekids. great. i know your
problem is to be honest for yourself. if you really behave like this, go on,
rip more. the fact is that there's millions of people ahead you on another level,
so just do YOUR style, write articles about YOUR style, get fame from ansikids, be happy
and release the pictures you're doing. fine. beign arrogant to yourself and others
just proves your mental level.
darkmage:
"Fuck that. This style you apparently think you are the sole creator of has been
spray painted all over ghetto walls for years now."
can you prove that?
"Are you fucking special for being the first one to bring it to
the almighty "scene" you keep ranting about? "
no. but i'm as special as every artist on scene whether it's
about ansi, ascii or whatever, advancing scene with new stuff for it.
"If you didn't want anyone to use it, why the fuck did you spread it"
using, getting inspiration and things like that are FAR AWAY from RIPPING.
it's a good example for people not to make any tutorials. there just seems to be
people with weaker intelligence wanting fame with any prize.
if you really don't know what i'm talking about, or get lame excuses every time your
replying then don't reply.
maybe you newbies doesn't have to bother if you can't create anything special or
something to call your own at all , so go making those pictures. fine.
By Root88 on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 09:48 am:
Off topic but... Catbones - "You go doodle tunez and render commercial pulp 3d, and i'll go airbrush" Did anyone catch the last Acid pack? when I saw your last Bryce/Poser pic, I honestly thought you were making a joke. The again, it looks like you put a lot of time into it. Please explain this to me.
By Darkmage on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 10:10 am:
I agree with you that ripping and influence are two different things, but i don't see Knave's work as being a direct copy. What seperates the two is that an influenced artist's own imagination and creativity will be visible. Knave has his own ideas that get incorporated into his work.
As for proving that the style in question has been all over ghetto walls for years, well, go rent a lame ass 70's movies that takes place in some urban environment, and you will see it.
And me being a newbie? Heh...keep thinkin whatever lets you sleep at night.
By Mass Delusion on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 11:07 am:
The only similarity is that they both use cross-hatching. Past that, letter styling, etc is not at all the same. Now that 'style' of art with the crosshatching/etc has been around for years (like darkmage has been saying).
So if that is your proof... uhh.. good luck convincing anyone besides yourself. :)
-Mass Delusion
ps: tomppa, that paradigm logo you did is very cool, i dig it.
By The knave of iCE on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 11:10 am:
Take Image Comics. The main technique used in 99% of the comics is the use of crosshatching and a fluid sense of "looseness" that allow the artist to be quick in his drawing, but effectively appealing as well.
If you notice, almost everything is drawn in a similar manner, the only difference being the artist's characters and small subtlties like the way he'll draw an explosion or glob of plasma. However, the world doesn't accuse these artists of stealing one anothers style, because its a great way of making a good looking comic to implore that style. Based on the comic artist's influences, he brings his own creativity into his use of accumulated learning and applies it to his own version of imagery and tale-telling.
So Tomppa1, remember this, because it exactly parrallels what you and I are talking about. This isnt about style-ripping, its now become you're way of discounting me as an artist so ACiD will once again rise to the pedestal of "scene domination" which you guys seem to love so dearly.
Peace.
By Jason on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 12:42 pm:
what
pisses me off is this: tomppa writes something about art/ripping and such
then some lame ass from ice starts to tell this
is about Ice versus Acid thing.. not like
invidual people talking about art.
thank you and goodnigth. And yes what the fuck
its being 'nice fellow' has to do with art
you can be most egoisticic fuck head but still
be an great artist, you can be most friendly ass licking bitch and do crap. or then you can be just you and do yar thing. personality. lets keep it that way and we dont end up being robots.
By Dangermouse on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 01:45 pm:
Take painters for instance. One might study a painting in an art gallery and learn the theory behind the painting, how the artist did it, and so forth. If this painter goes away and paints his/her own masterpiece, the technique and style may be similar to the one they studied at art school etc, or to there favourite artist, but the work and creative effort behind it still remains that of the artist.
The Knave may have been INFLUENCED by your style to some degree, but I'd hardly say he has ripped your style. In the ANSI scene, if someone RIPS they reproduce block for block someone else's work, infringing copyright laws and the rest of it. In the real world if someone is influenced by another its no big deal, as the person who has been influenced brings their own personal experiences and artistic creativity to the works..
I think Root88 put it best when he said:
"If Knave was influenced by your style, I would think that you would be flattered, not upset."
Peace dude..
By Mass Delusion on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 05:36 pm:
> its being 'nice fellow' has to do with art
> you can be most egoisticic fuck head but still
> be an great artist, you can be most friendly ass > licking bitch and do crap.
Hopefully someone can decipher that for us so we can get something useful from it...
At any rate, there is more behind this than just individuals and 'ripping'. There are some longstanding 'threads' between iCE and ACID, especially with regards to The Knave. You're in ACID, you ought to know that much.
And of course, you can bet all 17 grams of your left nutsack, that iCE guys will back up their iCE buddies; just as you've done for your friends. Any questions? That's how these things work, how NEW are you?! =)
-Mass Delusion / iCE
By Dangermouse on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 07:51 pm:
By Inazone on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 10:15 pm:
Tomi & Jason: Obviously, you guys have a personal problem with Knave. Honestly, it looks like you both hold a grudge against him and would rather pull all of Acid and Ice into your name-calling catfight. I've been looking at artpacks for six years, and nothing much looks new to me anymore. If I want to see something like Tomppa OR Knave draw, I'll look at an old Teklordz or Acid pack and check out what Ts, Smooth and Tosh10 used to do. Or Borian, if I want to see airbrushed skulls. I haven't seen anything 100% original in a long time, and it certainly didn't start with any of you.
Catbones: You seem to have a problem with just about everyone, especially if they've left the Acid "team". I've been there, and I remember. You should be a little more tolerant of other people, and leave your groupmate's battles to them. Tomppa's a big boy, he can take care of himself. And by the way, it's amusing to see you utter the words "second line art group" in reference to Ice. I'm curious to know the last time most Acid members downloaded another group's pack and saw what's going on outside the cave.
Everyone has influences, and as soon as another artist is your influence, you lose some aspect of originality. Did Knave rip Tomppa? I don't know, and I guess both of you can't be right. But there's a lot to be said for acting civil towards one another. If I watch "Aliens" and then draw an alien, am I ripping off Giger? Am I ripping off Borian, who is obviously influenced by Giger? I might not be totally original, but it's still my work.
Art is created from someone's imagination, but artistic techniques that have been around for hundreds or thousands of years are the basic principles around which art is created. Things like crosshatching and graffiti have been around longer than any of us have been alive, so it blows my mind that anyone should take credit for writing the book on originality in this day and age.
Get a grip.
inazone/ice ansi coordinator
(you know...ansi...that "dead" medium.)
By Napalm on Tuesday, December 8, 1998 - 11:06 pm:
By Litoz on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 12:04 am:
By Ashidaz on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 12:08 am:
Inazone: good comments, love every word of it just don't like the fact about 'Acid being a cave' or something like that... not very magically delicious if you ask me. Don't make generalizations :D but anyway, peace...
Ashidaz.One [acid profukzions..]
By Tomppa1 on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 06:51 am:
>Tomppa, first of all, we would all benefit if you would drop your enormous ego.
>What do you have to gain from putting another artist down?
You see, i don't have to keep my status for scene alive cause i haven't cared about scene
for long time... don't be so dumb that you can't read the bottomline of all my writings.
it's knave here that is spreading the status up with his brassy mouth.
"Not really, cause I applied to them with something I had drawn to show my new style. I drew
a really nice iCE font and a scene that was truely Knave-style.
iCE picked me up cause they saw I could draw. Simple as that. "
>I agree that Knave's logo's look a bit similar to yours,
when someone starts to use style that is made strightly by others,
he gotta just have some problems with speaking shit like these.
>Knave creates interesting complete pieces of artwork, not just a few logos. These are
>absolutly his own style. If Knave was influenced by your style, I would think that you
can you draw? if you can, i don't even have to reply to this.
[Darkmage]:
>I agree with you that ripping and influence are two different things,
>but i don't see Knave's work as being a direct copy.
ofcourse not they aren't directs copies like his first works, BUT
the logos knave were generated were not his own creations as he claims to tell us.
just millions of miles away.
and if you can't draw letters yourself you doesnt have to copy 'em (style) and claim
them to be yours. that's just that pathetic FunBoyScenester-attitude that i don't
understand. if you can't do strightly yours, don't *'ing release! if the group is so dumb
that it just put's everything out don't blame me.
>As for proving that the style in question has been all over ghetto
>walls for years, well, go rent a lame ass 70's movies that takes place
>in some urban environment, and you will see it.
well, go to worlds biggest graffiti archive, graffiti.org, and if you see something similar
bring it here. real artists doesnt borrow. they just work very hard, found and discover.
[Mass Delusion]:
>The only similarity is that they both use cross-hatching.
>Past that, letter styling, etc is not at all the same.
ok, md, open your eyes; don't support mass delusion if you doesnt know much about drawing.
so dont post your comments here :).
i don't have time to reply to each of you especially if you don't have any clue what's going on.
[knave]
>You know, I was thinking about this whole matter today and I realized how absurd this
>whole "ripping" thing really is when it comes to style.
It's very absurd when you claim "All artwork is 100% original". if the artwork is original
when you draw it yourself that's ok. Don't just call everything for your style.
>This isnt about style-ripping, its now become you're way of discounting me as an
>artist so ACiD will once again rise to the pedestal of "scene domination"
>which you guys seem to love so dearly.
don't get me wrong, i don't care what you draw as long as you don't do my stuff
claiming it to be yours. besides, i'm not comparing our imagenery at all. on it,
there's any similarities cause i don't do comix stuff.
this has nothing to do with Acid. It's you guys that keep comparing going.
[Dngrmouse]
>You cannot whole rip someone's style, without having some
>creative input from one's own artistic abilities.
true. but you can imitate it very close what comes to as "pictures".
when it comes to "art" you can't rip it. then when you call it 100% yours
it comes to ripping.
>Take painters for instance. One might study a painting in an art gallery and learn
>the theory behind the painting, how the artist did it, and so forth. If this painter
>goes away and paints his/her own masterpiece, the technique and style may be similar
>to the one they studied at art school etc, or to there favourite artist, but the work
>and creative effort behind it still remains that of the artist.
true, that's how people are working. those who are generating the styles become masters
like Picasso, Van Gogh etc. cause they are honestly for theirselves. they don't stick
their noses everywhere and search shit up. they find. if we are going to discuss anything
about (from?) art i'm out because the discussion would Never end and this will be a new
bible.
>The Knave may have been INFLUENCED by your style to some degree, but I'd hardly say
>he has ripped your style. In the ANSI scene, if someone RIPS they reproduce block for
>block someone else's work, infringing copyright laws and the rest of it.
it's about awarding the source not speaking shit all around. copyright laws?
copyright laws on ansiscene would be funny :) first some comix reproducing and then
getting $ when someone's printing 'em.. the only way ansiscene would need copyrights would
be someone making a book of ansiscene. believe me, that's gonna happen someday...
but who wants $ with their ansis instead of spreading 'em freely.
the income's just nothing compared to real working =)
you can become Rich with quake, not with ansi (unless you publish a book about it).
if you draw donald duck - disney might sue you.
>In the real
>world if someone is influenced by another its no big deal, as the person who has
>been influenced brings their own personal experiences and artistic creativity to
>the works..
I know, in this case I'm in a nice situation. seeing the developement how people
work with influences.. you know, i like to be (can be) a psychological researcher
also learning to see at this point also when i get imitated. nothing wrong with it.
you know, i have a strong self-irony.
"If Knave was influenced by your style, I would think that you would be flattered,
not upset."
I am flattered :). But the image Knave is giving from him upsets me. I'm just surprised
how hard it is to be cool, not just boost the scene-ego when there's something wrong
doing it. Am i really false?
[Massd]
>At any rate, there is more behind this than just individuals and 'ripping'.
ok bud, it was YOU that bring it to the Group level. :)
[Inazone]
>Honestly, it looks like you both hold a grudge against him and would rather pull
>all of Acid and Ice into your name-calling catfight.
no. why would i need the acidcrew to be here? the groups are working on different aspects
- you can't compare us because that is impossible.
besides, as i told earlier i don't go for scene this time - having a break. i think last thing i draw for
acid was something like half a year ago. i've seen how scene works and all i know is that it
won't lead you to anything but friends and cool time. so ego's here are bullshit basicly. when i do something i do it for myself whether
i release it or not. on a group that i decide myself.
>I've been looking at artpacks for six years, and nothing much looks new to me anymore.
depends on your attitude and your knowledge about art, at least ability to see -
not just to look at. yeah, pretty much is now accepted - basicly all forms of art can be
released, even sculptures and a lot of stuff is also released like that.
does people understand the works if they are too declamatory
like all the contemporary stuff is (based a lot on theories - not how it looks)?.
there is lots of new artforms like media-art and stuff like that generated with
computers on museums now. should scene be computer-oriented? does professionals belong
to scene? lots of guestions. well, i dunno what's the scene'll be and what's the audience
going to be. sure there are a lot of new stuff for you often, don't be too jaded.
maybe the ansi scene is now unactive but not hirez. the only thing on scene that is true
is that the art released will live only when electricity's plugged on.
>If I want to see something like Tomppa OR Knave draw, I'll look at an old Teklordz or
>Acid pack and check out what Ts, Smooth and Tosh10 used to do.
so, you can see? am i been this stupid for a long long time releasing stuff other people used to do.
that just proves that you can't see, don't know what i do or just talk shit. are you talking
about logos? if so, go to artcrimes - it's better archive.
>Or Borian, if I want to see airbrushed skulls. I haven't seen anything 100% original
>in a long time, and it certainly didn't start with any of you.
i think hrg#22 had some original stuff. you just have to open your eyes. if you can't be
original that doesn't mean noone can.
>If I watch "Aliens" and then draw an alien, am I ripping off Giger? Am I ripping
>off Borian, who is obviously influenced by Giger? I might not be totally original, but it's
>still my work.
noone's original, but the point is to be original.
to do stuff that you're suppoced to do. if you don't know
what you're suppoced to do, you'll find it. at least people that are driven to something, they are
original.
but did giger rip van gogh? they both do pretty melancolic stuff? did he rip some medieval dutch painters who painted
hell creatures and such, even millions of times dramatically imo.? i'm sure he have been inspired by Michelangelo with human anatomy on artschools. Did Giger rip god's creations?
Did god rip the goddess? Did giger rip you cause you were his earlier incarnation and you collected imaginery for
his head's bank? did you rip the earlier cavepaintings? noone knows.
>Art is created from someone's imagination, but artistic techniques that have been around
>for hundreds or thousands of years are the basic principles around which art is
>created. Things like crosshatching and graffiti have been around longer than any
>of us have been alive, so it blows my mind that anyone sh
>ould take credit for writing the book on originality in this day and age.
so why do we add our signature for works? isn't it just a lame social sign for us?
why don't we all make pictures with photos of paintings by L. Da Vinci and such old masters
with just adding some filters into them? they were all inspirated by others, so we can call our
stuffs as original as them. they can't claim it to be original, that's what you guys are up to.
or better, why don't we just go leech some pornopictures and bust them up with filters? hey guys, that's what we'll do.
just remember to add the sign on 'em of cos so them become YOURS.
it's funny that there's so many message posters who doesnt know a shit what they're posting.
anyway =)
peace & blessings..
By Jason on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 07:09 am:
>problem with Knave. Honestly, it looks like
>you both hold a grudge against him and would >rather pull all of Acid and Ice into your
Now where did i mock Knave ?
i think if you ask from knave he migth say "i dont think jason have anything againts me" (not putting words in to he's mouth tho) i have nothing against him. Only thing i'm agaist is doing art
and not giving respective credits to one who has done the picture [now this one goes far to those
pictures he released on some acid pack that were
copy/paste..color editing stuff, i think knave
agrees that he did small mistake not crediting the rigth authors] (this same happens in demoscene daily) He makes some nice pictures
some not so nice, but its just who looks at them.
massd>buddies; just as you've done for your > friends.Any questions? That's how these things work, how
>NEW are you?! =)
Yeah someone was talking about being inmature some time ago?
By The knave on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 09:48 am:
=)
Lets get off this topic its making me sick. All you guys rule, you just freak out too much. Tomppa1, chill bro, its all good. Just lay off on this stealin stuff. Im doin my own material, just keep your eyes on my work and you'll notice. Keep an open mind my friend.
Peace.
By Dangermouse on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 01:42 pm:
By Cthulu of Mistigris on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 02:42 pm:
Now if only I could raise so much discussion in the lit area...
By RaD Man on Wednesday, December 9, 1998 - 09:04 pm:
Except maybe how quickly one will run to dismiss a rational discussion about plagiaristic behaviour -- shamelessly trying to peg it as some sort of and ACiD/iCE vendetta.
If you will, let me take you to the beginning, where Count Zero basically asked "What the hell are you talking about, Tomppa1?" in not so many words. In a reponse to Count Zero I made an attempt to clarify, stating that The Knave committed an act of outright plagiarism in ACiD Acquisition Update 69 (fact), and that his most recent artwork bears many similarities to that of Tomppa1's (opinion). My exact words being "His new `style` leaves a bad taste in my mouth because to me it looks like someone trying to do what Tomppa1 was doing 2 years ago."
Whatever group The Knave is in today or tommorow is immaterial here, folks. Him being in iCE is quite the triviality.
And so... Next thing I know, the finger pointing begins, starting with none other than the accused himself. Shift the blame, post, shift the blame, post. Repeat as necessary.
The only one person I've seen here submit any URLs to present a case has been Tomppa1. I've heard alot of talk, but no one's backed it up.
Allow me to make one thing absolutely clear: The Knave's most recently logos are based directly upon Tomppa1's very original and easily-identifiable style. Does anyone disagree with this? If someone would like to deny this then by all means please make your statement and drop the insipid group-politics-bullshit.
-r
(My sincerest apologies are bestowed upon the people who cannot open-mindedly read this because my alias is RaD Man and I am a member of ACiD Productions.)
By The knave on Thursday, December 10, 1998 - 12:21 am:
http://www.ice.org/~knave/myway.jpg
Radman: my logos arent "based" on anything. I was clearly and unmistakably influenced by tomppa1. For gods sake he released a tutorial on logo design to help people. I have been doing my current style of drawing since I began drawing as a young child, using crosshatching etc. (view my piece from 1996 at http://www.ice.org/~knave/myway.jpg) but I wasnt into lettering until I got into hirez. I learned alot from alot of people and learned the ropes of designing fluid lettering by tomppa1 and the artists of www.graffiti.org. Nuf said. Get off it. Im not stealing anything, what are you trying to prove? Jesus christ.
By Tomppa1 on Thursday, December 10, 1998 - 01:30 am:
i think discussion's over at least for me.
we all know we all learned.
nothing more to offer.
christmas's coming, be kind to your pals so the
big'n'bad santa wouldn't bust you up =)
and yeah, tomorrow's friday.
that's for quake.
By Tomppa1 on Thursday, December 10, 1998 - 06:35 am:
when it comes to logos i don't need to reply if they are based to others or not.
you know, when i open aciddraw, open a ansi by someone else, open a new page and push the same blocks same way it's 100% original by me. i might change something of 'cos, but i did it, so it's not based to anything else. i just had strong influences, you know. person that did the original didn't do original artwork cause he also got influences. simple as that.