oldschool rippers?

acheron.org % discussions: General Art Discussion: oldschool rippers?
By
Count zero on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 06:20 am:

I've been reading stuff in various places lately about the possibility that many of the oldschool "gods" may have used gif2ansi or some such program to create alot of their ansis. What does everybody think about this? I'm still confused and undecided, and I wanna do some research for myself. But some of those oldschoolers _do_ appear suspicious, cranking out five 200+ line ansis in a month and whatnot.


By Filth on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 12:25 pm:

yeah, i've had the same suspicions. the fact of oldschoolers pumping out soo many pics a month, and the fact that in 93-94 vga mode wasn't out yet in drawing programs, and to this day people can't seem to get as good as the oldschoolers with their proportionings. i've talked to a few oldschoolers, and they denied the fact. but i still don't know. i mean the first i heard of this was when i talked to moleql a friend of nailz, who was a friend of neurotics. in gutter 1 he talked about how nc used gif2ansi. "bullshit" everyone thought. but then in the last gutter sd went on about how all these oldschoolers ripped.

but i guess the real question is, do we really want to know of our idles used gif2ansi? i mean the people we all looked up to could be less of a god then we are.


By Halaster on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 12:57 pm:

You guys are fools. I've seen step by steps of 200-line ansis from people who didn't use VGA mode .. before Aciddraw, they'd actually have to use DOS copy fname1.ans + fname2.ans final.ans to combine 100-line sections into one.

You can spot a gif2ansi ansi .. they lack black border lines of any kind. Besides, gif2ansi only outputs 25-line ansi files, right? Since the aspect ratio is so different for a 640*480 pic, you're squishing MASSIVE amounts of detail into a small-scale pic.

TRY using gif2ansi to make decent large pics and then you'll see. Thempus Thales drew every block.

And shame on you both for trying to talk your way out of drawing big pics!!

Halaster


By Leonardo.iCE on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 01:06 pm:

I really doubt it, I've never used gif2ansi but I've seen some conversions posted on bbss before. gif2ansi doesn't optimize the 'half blocks', sure artist could have drawn thier ansis intitially into paintbrush or something in 16 color then converted them to ansi, then went into thedraw and touched them up. Its possible, and even if so, is it REALLY wrong to do that?? I dont really think so.

As far as scanning in a comic, converting it to ansi.... I think thats close to impossible. It would probibly be EASIER to draw it.

I think we can rest easy that our ansi idols weren't rippers. If they used gif2ansi to HELP them.. big deal.


By Dangermouse on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 02:44 pm:

You guys have pretty much read my mind on this one.. Look for an article in January about it. It certainly is a good topic to explore. But to put my two cents worth in:

I agree with Leonardo on this one. Who really does give a toss if the oldschoolers used gif2ansi, even though I doubt they did. And as Leonardo stated, even to get something like a comic scanned and converted is almost impossible anyways.

Yes, I think I will explore this further.


By Napalm on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 04:40 pm:

Look for my article in the next gutter, it will help dispell certain rumors and is bound to spark off a few new debates. Keep in mind that I can't speak for all oldschoolers, but i will do my best to tell you what i remember from the 93/94 days.


By Filth on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 06:18 pm:

hal i'm glad you're going on about something you don't know anything about. (not trying to say that i'm some sort of connoisseur of gif2ansi'ing)
but you can do large pics with gif2ansi. i'm guessing you never read my mag gutter, but sudden death (finally) admited to using gif2ansi. and he had huge pics.

"And shame on you both for trying to talk your way out of drawing big pics!! "

again, have you ever seen me, or count zero's ansi? are you trying to make yourself look bad?

and about leo's comment "sure artist could have drawn thier ansis intitially into paintbrush or something in 16 color then converted them to ansi, then went into thedraw and touched them up. "
that's pretty lame if you ask me. ansi is a great medium becuase it is so simple. when you dick around with hirez to ansi, it just takes away the unique feeling, and you're not much of an ansi artist.

"I think we can rest easy that our ansi idols weren't rippers. If they used gif2ansi to HELP them.. big deal. "

is it thursday already? are the garbage men comming to pick up this crap? cause this looks to me like total bullshit. i feel pretty ripped off thinking about the fact that some of the ansi gods i tried so hard to be a smidge close to as good, weren't really that good at all.


By Argon on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 06:20 pm:

I dont remember any of the big time artists doing anything like that.. However, its not inconceivable that some of the upcoming artists in the smaller, more local groups would do that. Ripping was pretty common in the local scene around here (805), whether it be Gif2Ansi or just straight block loading another artists stuff..

Argon


By Dangermouse on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 08:30 pm:

Filth, yeah.. :) I would have to say that yes, if the ansi idols did in fact do this then yes, they should be frowned upon to some degree -- as making an ANSI pic is indeed a challenge, and to make a good one shows talent and good artistic merit.

If people these days want to use gif2ansi, then shoud they be stating they do -- on their ansis? I mean, I can't really give a toss that Sudden Death uses gif2ansi, at least he *eventually* came out and said something about it.

That is what I'm going to address in my article. If people want to use gif2ansi, then that is good and shit -- but they should NOT state that the entire thing is there work. They should be putting a disclaimer on there work or some shit stating they had *help* making the ANSI. And if the artist is to chicken shit to come out and state they are not wholey making the ANSI by themselves, then why the fuck are they using gif2ansi or even bothering to be in the art scene in the first place?


By Filth on Monday, December 14, 1998 - 10:03 pm:

blah, i'd really _really_ hate to see people using gif2ansi as a tool. that'll mark a sad day for the scene when i see "a little help from gif2ansi". and i swear to god if i ever see it i'll go out of my way to make the artist(s) look like the dumbest/biggest piece of shit ever to even think about being cool by releasing garbage.


By Count zero on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 06:28 am:

Well, I think I'd have no problem with people using Gif2ansi as long as they acknowledged it (I think I talked about that in a recent issue of FoS). But it wouldn't be the same kind of art as ansi art, and you couldn't judge it on the same merits. Just like photomanip vs. other hirez stuff. And I'd have more appreciation for non-gif2ansi'd stuff than for gif2ansi'd stuff, 'cause that's what _I_ do, and it's much easier to appreciate something that you know something about.

I would DEFINITELY be pissed off if I discovered that some of the oldschool gods I worshipped ripped. It would mean that I've been trying so hard for all these years to become as good as people who weren't really very good at all.

On the other hand... It would make me feel good about myself, because I know that I've achieved whatever skill level I've gotten to all on my own, with no help from gif2ansi. It would make me feel like "yeah, take that you oldschoolers! I'm better than you!".

So basically: If I found out that some of the oldschoolers ripped stuff, I'd be pissed off, but it'd be an ego boost, too :).

On another note. Yeah, it IS possible to make gif2ansi'd stuff look good. I've seen gif2ansi'd stuff, way back in like '93, that looked like shit. But with a fair bit of work, tweaking here and there, smoothing out the outlines, and messing around with the shading, it could be made to look _very_ good, I'm sure. I've never actually seen anyone DO that, but it could easily be done.


By Leonardo.iCE on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 07:02 am:

filth, all I was trying to say is if a couple of oldschool artists did that, I really don't care, I'm sure there were plenty of other artists who DIDN'T do that and WERE my idols.

If you could somehow PROVE that some artists back then did that, I could almost bet that they probibly weren't my idols anyways!

If someone were to use this method, it WONT be saving you alot of time and effort. If fact, it would probibly be such a pain in the ass smoothing out blocks in half blocks and stuff that it would probibly be easier with out it.


By Argon on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 10:25 am:


Le0's right.. I doubt anything truly spectacular could be made with GIF2ANSI and then fixed up.. Besides, anyone who could take a cheesy, rough-edged, unbordered GIF2ANSI and convert it into an awesome ANSI, well that would take a bit of skill, wouldn't you say?
The only segment of the bbs population I saw that even had the thing were PD boards with that demo gif2ansi of a frog on their login menu :)

Argon


By Leonardo on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 10:49 am:

All I remember about gif2ans were pornos converted to ansi on some local boards.

pretty lame.


By Filth on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 11:36 am:

actually you can make pretty kick ass pics with gif2ansi, and it's not all that hard. back when i was in cia sudden death had this huge outline in gif2ansi (of course none of us knew about it being a fraud at the time) but it looked pretty damn good. i think it was even released in a cia pack.


By God among Lice on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 12:20 pm:

My only experience with gif2ansi is converting the title pic for Doom into an ansi and trying to convince Panacea that it'd be cool to have on his board.

Interestingly enough, I even drew that doom logo in a .rip once. heheh

OH! that reminds me.. did you guys know that there was actually a program that'd convert gifs to .rip files? It was pretty bad. it'd fill the screen with like 3-pixel long lines, and the finished .rip file would be like 10 times as big as the original gif. :)


By Count zero on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 12:57 pm:

Heh... That's retarded :). And like you wouldn't be able to tell. "No, really... I ALWAYS draw my rips in horizontal lines, starting from the top down! I swear!"
BTW... I've been trying to get my hands on a copy of gif2ansi, to do some research with it (ha! I'm gonna rip, and then I'll get some mad respect from you guys!), but all I can find is "ansirezl.zip" on the AAA. I can't find the good ol' gif2ansi program I remember. If anybody's got a copy, please get in touch with me, so's I can get it from ya.


By Inazone on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 02:05 pm:

All I can say is that it'd be a HUGE disappoinment to find that some of these great artists were giving less than a 100% effort to create some of their mind-blowing pics. I don't think most of them would do that, especially to the extent required to convert a large pic from GIF to ansi.
I think a lot of these guys spent more time on their art rather than sitting on IRC like most people do today.

I know that I used to crank out 4-6 100+ line pics every month before I discovered IRC. More than my jobs, girlfriends or school, the Internet has been the main reason why I have to struggle to get 2 pics done in any given month. Sure, my technical ansi skills are better now than they were 3 years ago, but it takes me a lot longer to actually finish a pic, let alone think of something to draw. Gif2Ansi could conceivably speed up the process, but I bet that most early ansi artists allowed themselves more actual drawing time between packs.

I can't condemn someone for using a "tool" to allow themself more creativity within a medium , but I think that while using Photoshop filters might extend someone's ideas, using Gif2Ansi is nothing more than a shortcut. And that is taking away from the artform. If I found out that someone in Ice was using something like that to crank out pics, I'd kick them out immediately. There's no excuse for using something like Gif2Ansi to create a great pic if other artists can do just as good a job without it.

inazone/iCE


By RaD Man on Tuesday, December 15, 1998 - 12:55 am:

This whole thing about our scene legends using gif2ansi is blasphemy. Plain and simple.

'Nuff said.

-r


By AntiAll on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 06:16 am:

Wasn't Sudden Death originally nailed because he cranked out tons and tons of outlines a month and always had other artists color and shade them? Then people got thinking right?

Well, was Sudden Death the first biggish profile artist to caught doing this, or what? I know gif2ansi and other programs like it have been around for quite awhile... surely some oldschooler has been caught doing it before... or maybe noone cared... or maybe everyone did it?

Here is something to debate about... At some point I do care about the use of such programs, because it *does* take away from ansi as an art but with all of the "good" artists who have been caught lately and kicked from the scene or quit in shame is our recent concern for this is hurting our ever dwindling scene... what do you think?

It seems most people don't care much as long as the "artist" lets it be known. Certain individuals (cough cough, Filth) have gone on huge crusades against gif2ansi users, and justly. I think if, after some investigation, it was found that many of our old idols were fakes, it kind of shatters your dreams a little. I mean, I'm sure a lot of artists are still drawing because they aspire to be like certain oldschool greats, what would happen to our scene if the very roots it is now based on were taken away from us?

One final note, I don't think anyone should worry to much (for now) about Aphex Twin using gif2ansi like Sudden Death suggested in that one Gutter interview. Sudden Death has lied to us before, now he's done denying what's he done, it doesn't mean he's not still trying to shift the blame...

AntiAll


By Count zero on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 08:08 am:

Okay. I don't think that questioning the validity of our idols' works is "blasphemy". I'd rather know the truth than believe in a lie that makes me happy. I think that this is worth looking into. If any of my idols used gif2ansi, I wanna know about it. I don't wanna waste any more time wondering, "how did they get so GOOD?!" if they weren't that good at all. I'm not claiming here that they all used it and stuff... I'm just saying that it's a possibility that should be explored.


By Count zero on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 08:28 am:

BTW... Just thought I'd reply again to Halaster's post :). This is a little off-topic.

I remember the days before ACiDDraw. Oh yeah. Using TheDraw to create ansi's in 100 line segments. My technique was to then load 'em up in the MS-DOS editor, and string 'em together using cut-and-paste :). I think I got a 250-liner out of that once.

Oh, and it *was* possible back in those days to get your proportions right. What I used to do, was I'd load up TheDraw, draw my ansi, and then shell to DOS and load up GOTHiCView (I still have a copy of that, and I use it, too) to view the ansi in VGA mode. That was probably circa 1994 or so.


By Leonardo.iCE on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 09:10 am:

count, the way I did it was do a 100 line ansi in thedraw. Then if it went more than 100 lines I would cut like 25 lines off the bottom and paste it into a new thedraw file to keep it flowing, then delete the top lines. Then I would use ms-dos editor to past them together. Then repeat the process. I did alot of large ansis this way. I had no vga view, I didn't even have a 100+ lines ansi editor. I still kept my proportions pretty good in my opintion.

heres a really big one I did using this method:

l0-tdsad.ans <-- check it out.

-Leonardo.iCE


By Walterns on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 10:53 am:

The thing is, even if someone IS using gif to ansi, how are you going to truly prove it unless you actually see them do it? You really have no way of knowing for sure. You guys really shouldn't be so quick to put an artist on trial.


By Filth on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 11:29 am:

well it can be easily proven, becuase well if you're lucky enough to come across the original gif you can convert it yourself. that's how i busted someone on one of my "crusades". or you can just find pure idiots like soulscream (aka imodium) and just lie to them and make shit up until they admit to it.

but in some cases you don't need proof, sometimes it's just so obvious that the fraud just gives up trying to denies and either quits the scene, or pussies out and changes his nick.


By Count zero on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 01:01 pm:

Jesus, Leo... You did a 600 line ansi?! What were you smoking? :) AND you pasted it together? You're a madman. BTW... yeah, that technique you described for pasting your ansis together is pretty much what I did, too. It got annoying sometimes, though. I always used a naming system for ansis that were part of a link-chain, like "c0-ansi1.ans", "c0-ansi2.ans", etc. But once I forgot to start naming the second ansi in the chain "c0-ansi2", and renamed it "c0-ansi1", thus saving over the original, and losing 100 lines of the best ansi I'd ever (up to that point in time) done. Then I quit drawing for about 8 months, 'cause I was bitter :).

c0.iCE.


By Halaster on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 01:16 pm:

Filth -

The gif2ansi that *I* saw back in _1994_ (which is when we're talking about, is it not?) couldn't be used to do longer-than-25-line ansis. At least not that I'm aware.

With regards to your defensive comments about drawing long ansis - I was teasing. Don't take me so seriously.

I do think it's sad, though, that some feel this need revise history. And, in all honesty, it realy does seem like there's a push to de-godify the ansi gods. I can only interpret such a movement as an attempt to make oneself better by making the people one looks up to (used to look up to?) seem unworthy.

See what I mean?

If Somms suddenly gets de-bunked as a great artist, then that moves a lot of new-schoolers a notch upwards.




..

I don't know. I think ansi quality really really dropped off in '96 and 7 .. .it seems a little too convenient to whine about what people did during the 'golden age' of 1994/5/X ..

Halaster (who still knows *something* about how the scene works, even if he's behind.)


Radman's right though - this smells of blasphemy. :)

P.S, Filth - I have never, ever cared about whether or not I "look bad." All I'm doing is speaking my mind. I don't see a need for confrontation here.


By Leonardo on Wednesday, December 16, 1998 - 01:23 pm:

c0, heh. I must have REALLY been bored or something, I drew another big one, lo-pcity.ice. I think it was Lord Jazz that inspired me to do HUGE ansis, I remember seeing his and thinking DAMN that must have taken forever. He was definately one of my biggest influences.

That sucks. I had a similar thing happen. It REALLY REALLY pissed me off. I made a ansimation one time and it was REALLY fucking tight. I was 1MB, and every frame was shaded. I spent FOREVER on it, it would have been my masterpeice. I never finished it, one day my HD crashed and I lost it ALL!!! :'|

argasdf, I'm STILL bitter

-Leo.iCE


By Count zero on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 06:16 am:

Leo: Heh... There was always one kind of long ansi that bugged me. There were a couple artists who were just OBSESSED with "rain"... You know, they'd draw either raining water or raining blood, just as strings of F1's, F2's, F3's, and F4's of red or blue, place 'em randomly around the screen, and keep it going for about 500 lines to add some length to their pictures :). And some of the good artists tried it out once in awhile... I remember an early Lord Jazz ansi that used it. It was a picture of like a skeleton, and some black guy holding a dead white chick, and a tombstone, and some ferns. I think the tombstone said "RIP: iCE" or something like that :). I think he used rain in that one. No, I don't have a point.


By Leonard0 on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 09:20 am:

c0, yeah.. I know what you mean. I think it was because back when ansis were displayed on BBSs with like 14.4s when you had like 300 lines or so of "rain" it displayed REALLY fast and kinda looked cool as it flew by. I remember that ansi LD did, I think it was one of his biggest. There was also one... I can BEARLY remember, but it had like a floting castle hovering in the sky or something, I remember seeing that in an acid pack and my jaw just dropped :)

-lo.iCE


By RaD Man on Thursday, December 17, 1998 - 08:52 pm:

Ah yes. ANSI-Rain, one of the scene's many cliches. :)


-r


By Count zero on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 06:10 am:

Inky used to be one of my favourites :). I remember a pic of his that kept me in awe for a long time. It was of Pitt, about to crush some guy's head, and the guy was saying "Oh Shit!". I think it was an ad for "Channel Zero". And Inky always drew those little stoner people. Crazy... I'm experiencing nostalgia, and I'm only 19.


By Leo.iCE on Friday, December 18, 1998 - 07:21 am:

how can you forget about Inky! :) I *loved* his stoner calvin pictures!! I ran a BBS for like a month one time, I had ALL of his pics on all my logon screens and stuff.


By Argon on Saturday, December 19, 1998 - 04:56 am:

Well, I just want to say that I dont think Neurotic used GIF2ANS for his pics, but it might have been possible for him to have all his ANSI comic outlines saved to disk, so whenever he wanted to make a new ansi and he was pressed for time, he could use a previous outline and change it just enough to fit whatever comic he was making. just a thought ..i dont mean to tarnish his fine legacy, but i mean, he DID draw a lot of pics of women. And a lot of them looked similar.
Would that constitute ripping?

Of course I dont have any hard evidence to back this up.. its not an accusation, its just one possibility..

Argon


By Inazone on Saturday, December 19, 1998 - 09:29 pm:

In response to Argon's latest post, no...I don't think that would constitute ripping. As long as Neurotic drew it, it's his material to work with as he sees fit. If that ever falls under the definition of "ripping", I'm fooked. I've recycled bits and pieces of my own pics over the years, though never twice within the same group. Sometimes you sit there unsure of what to fill in next and realize "I've got just the thing!"


By RaD Man on Wednesday, December 23, 1998 - 07:28 pm:

No one has any "hard evidence" to prove that our ANSI scene legends have "ripped" *OR* used GIF2ANSI or a similar program.

If someone did, they would have came forward already.

This discussion is baseless and disgusting.

-r


By Filth on Thursday, December 24, 1998 - 12:29 am:

"If someone did, they would have came forward already. "

uh, that's doubtfull.


By Mass Delusion on Thursday, December 24, 1998 - 10:46 pm:

Well, as filth knows, I have seen first-hand in progress pieces by Neurotic. Now, it _IS_ possible that Neurotic was gif2ansing, BUT. You people don't realize what you're saying.

The amount of work involved in taking a gif2ansi'd piece and trying to convert it to a 'beta outline' to show people what you're "legitimately" working on, and then progress that in say 15-20 saved steps FROM an original gif2ansi would be simply MIND BOGGLING work. (which is what NC did)

When Neurotic was pumping out 3-4 200+ liners a month, he would have had to spend 20+ hours a piece to show me all of the 'in progress' work he showed me.. it simply isn't feasible.

Lastly, most of you are forgetting the attitude of that era. Ripping was actually looked down upon with serious consequences. None of this Trauma/Airbrush stuff where he rips and then changes his handle, joins a new group, rips, joins a new group, etc.

At this point in time, ripping meant you were BANNED from the scene. You wouldn't be able to sneak back in unless you were one crafty dude. Things were more 'elite' then.. and under those 'social' settings, I find it even harder to believe that people were gif2ansi'ing.

Rad Man speaks the truth: garbage.


-Mass Delusion, iCE Senior Staff


By AntiAll on Saturday, December 26, 1998 - 07:41 am:

Radman seems *WAY* to defensive on this topic, which stirs up even more...

maybe he's trying to protect himself, and his group's history? eh?

maybe not...


By RaD Man on Saturday, December 26, 1998 - 01:54 pm:

Maybe everyone here is full of shit.

maybe not...


By Dangermouse on Saturday, December 26, 1998 - 07:43 pm:

Antiall, I think your just trying to make trouble :)


By Necromancer on Wednesday, January 6, 1999 - 04:53 pm:

I think all of you are full of shit, except for RaD Man, Mass Delusion, Halaster and Dangermouse. That's what it boils down to. Hal had a VERY valid point when he commented on the blatant debasing of the legendary artists.

The scene isn't what it used to be. The artists are second-rate in comparison to the masters of yester-year. And it bothers all of you scenesters now. It pisses you off that the people that are considered 'legendary' are all from 1994, not 1998/99. Do you people really believe that JeD created ANIMATED ANSIs with gif2ansi? Pish, I say. And there are many of us that have seen people create these 200+ liners - and they certainly didn't use some text-conversion utility. All you're trying to do is justify your meager existence with excuses for your mediocrity.

You people don't have the time or the patience to create masterpieces anymore, and if you do, you only do 1 per month. What you don't seem to understand is that in the heyday of the scene (I'd say around 1994), it was like a family. Everyone was MUCH more involved. And like Massd said, if you ripped (.. and gif2ansi would be considered ripping), you were blacklisted, plain and simple. No board would accept you, and if you changed identities, someone would find out. If nothing else, people could tell by talking to you. "Hey, he sounds familiar." Chris (RM), remember a certain person that I worked with that had the word 'acid' in his OOOOLD handle? Remember when we figured out who he was?

All by the tone of his voice, kiddies. Nothing more. Now, if someone gets caught ripping, they get banned from #ansi. Big fucking deal. They'll just go start another channel, like #ans. Back then, if you were blacklisted, you were FUCKED. If The Dark Society blacklisted you, so did Trader's Outpost and Channel Zero.

Anyway. My rant is done. High fives go out to RM, Massd, and Hal (put your board back up). Peace out to Dangermouse for getting Element Design some clients.

- Mark Dunn aka Necromancer
ACiD. Remorse. No more. No less.


By AntiAll on Thursday, January 7, 1999 - 11:31 am:

WOW. I think you totally missed the point of the whole discussion. *sigh*


By Big yellow man on Thursday, January 7, 1999 - 11:45 am:

Well.. they did certainly use gif2ansi in the soo called "golden days".. personally i think the art got better in 95-96 when euro groups started the newschool trend.

If you unzip your old undergrown emags then you find notices that gif2ansi was among the great numbers of utils that many artists used. but i dont think it was like sudden death said in the gutter interview that the tool was used to "produce outlines" but i'm almost certain that people used it. my personal opinion is that the util is a worthless piece of crap.. using converting utils is not drawing ansi art. Exploring new technics and trying to get a personal style is. And that is the ansiscene extremly good at thinking of who few ppl that are or has been involved in it. and the true legends are the ones that drew art that lives and inspires even is it's 4-5 years old.


By All on Thursday, January 7, 1999 - 03:12 pm:

It's hard to miss the point when there isn't one.


By Dangermouse on Thursday, January 7, 1999 - 05:32 pm:

What it all boils down to is this, and listen.

i) Who gives a toss if gif 2 ansi was used or not -- its in the past.. And, it is a *UTIL*, which means some people might have used it, some may not have.. That's what a utility is used for.

ii) People in other *ANSI SCENES*, and they do exist, trust me, use gif2ansi all the time, without a second thought.. This can mainly be put down to the fact that most of them are pretty ordinary when it comes to art..

I think we have to applaud a scene which encourages original artwork, without the 'help' of a conversion utility.


By Leonard0.iCE on Friday, January 8, 1999 - 07:52 am:

Back in the day (as its called), gif2ans was around, but noone who was a good ansi artist used it or even thought of using it. It was never really spoke of. This whole idea of artists using gif2ans is a new idea, conjured up by "new school" scenesters who don't have any idea what thier talking about.

Sit down, shut up, and draw a fucking ansi! :)

stop wasting time on this bullshit.

Leo


By Leonardo.iCE on Wednesday, January 13, 1999 - 12:10 pm:

"People in other *ANSI SCENES*, and they do exist, trust me"

btw, I was 'surfing the web' and a came across a couple of ansi-oriented websites that seem to be almost completely oblivious to the scene (although I did find a few references <ie. aciddraw, iceview, etc.>)

Dave's Ansi board
and
OutWorld Arts

and one more final note on this discussion: Our 'ansi gods' of 1990-1993 probibly didn't scan/gif2ansi their art because most people DIDN'T HAVE SCANNERS!

Leo


By Dangermouse on Wednesday, January 13, 1999 - 01:56 pm:

Yeah, I agree with Leonardo on that point, and I'm suprised no-one has even brought up the very valid point of scanners before :)

Leo, Yeah, I've been to Dave's Ansi Board before, and yeah, most of them seem to really like using gif2ansi don't they? (I refer to the posts with the Message Board there).

I was just at the OutWorld site, and shit, they have absolutely no idea about the biggest ANSI scene in the world (and the best)! I find that almost funny. Of course, I had to add acheron's link to their links page, perhaps they'll find out how far they have to come to catch up to the guys in *our* scene :)


By Imot on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 12:02 am:

>"People in other *ANSI SCENES*, and they do exist, trust me" >

yeah, there's dozens of packs, mostly personal releases of ansi on some pdboards back to '80's.
should we carry 'em to artpacks.archive for nostalgia. or to "save" some nice stuff before it's not too late =)

for this conversation about gif2ans; if someone really uses Time for ansi (and drawing too), isn't making outlines for comixkindsof stuff faster (and 100% better) with skills, not with gif2ans.


By Haquisaq on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 01:46 am:

for all we know, our scene might be oblivious to yet another scene where everyone kicks ass at ansi, no one at _all_ uses gif2ansi, and no one even talks about gif2ansi =)


By Leonardo.iCE on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 09:47 am:

"I was just at the OutWorld site, and shit, they have absolutely no idea about the biggest ANSI scene in the world (and the best)! I find that almost funny. Of
course, I had to add acheron's link to their links page, perhaps they'll find out how far they have to come to catch up to the guys in *our* scene :)"

I thought it was funny too, it was also funny going though the messages on 'dave's ansi board' it looked like some kind of WWiVnet ansi talk. These people just dont have a clue!

----------------------------------------

"yeah, there's dozens of packs, mostly personal releases of ansi on some pdboards back to '80's.
should we carry 'em to artpacks.archive for nostalgia. or to "save" some nice stuff before it's not too late =)"

Good idea, even though its not scene oriented it's *still* ansi (we want to have the most complete collection right?) maybe have an "artpacks\misc" directory or someting.

----------------------------------------------

"for all we know, our scene might be oblivious to yet another scene where everyone kicks ass at ansi"

I doubt that dude :)


By Filth on Thursday, January 14, 1999 - 12:55 pm:

if anyone of you read my mag, did you notice the exit ansi in gutter 1? it was a tribute to the _oldschool_ days of ansi. if you don't know what i'm talkin about, go get and, and then you'll understand. :)


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