whats your opinion on newbies?
Newbies are good for the scene -- afterall we were all 'newbies' at one stage, like it or not.. Without newbies the scene will not live, because as artists grow older, or their lives become more hectic, new artists will need to fill their shoes when they depart from the scene (but who truly does? :>)
I don't mind the people coming in channels and asking for art, although i think many are a bit tired of seeing those everyday. What I do hate are people mass /msg-ing the channel asking for something to draw for them, then you ask 'do you know who I am?' and they can't even name one group you've been in.
I try to stay away from #ansi
I can't beleive you guys are having a discussion like that. What the fuck? This shouldn't even be a discussion topic. Like everything in life, new people will get into what you are. Whether it be a scene or a job (or anything else)...
The Night Angel: Well, i'm (sorta) in the scene, and i don't draw, write, or track. I code. (:
the thing that i have noticed, and is more or less one of the reasons that i don't hang around in #ans / #ansi anymore (other than the fact that i don't have much time for anything these days =) ) is that even those who try to get into the scene that DO draw, are criticized to the point of ridicule. it just seems to me that the scene has lost all patients. if your not good right away, or if you cant keep up with the tempo, your not wanted. thats why its dying.
The scene has ALWAYS been like that. When I first started I was ridiculed to HELL. I was told I sucked over and over and over again. At one point I was even accused of ripping Tempus Thales. To tell you the truth though, without the taunting I don't know if I would have even kept up with ansi. All of that negativity provided fuel to change that spark of interest I had in the medium, to a full blown flame. When I look back,
irc destroys the whole respect thing tho i think.. i mean..regardless that maybe im still a newbie.. ive been on the scene for a while.as a trader and shit... hm.. anyway.. when i was on bbs's.. like..the sysops where gods..whenever someone took you into a chat..you got to shaking and sweating and like..woo...he's talking to ME.. and the artists where like..way up high above you. you never dared even request shit from them..but then when i went on irc it all changed.. i totally lost respect for alot of artists and like i really can understand why you treat newbies with disrespect and shit..cause i mean..1'st: thats whats expected from you. 2:nd: they really dont kiss up to artists like i did when i was new, they need to be put down :)
Well, before IRC all you knew of an artist was his art. You're perceptions of him were based soley on that because you had nothing else to go by. Now with everyone hanging out on IRC all the time you get to communicate with these people on a daily basis. That kind of eliminates the whole mystery man behind the art element. IRC let's the new guy see that sometimes, the big shot ansi god is just a big dork. :)
yeah..w0rd up on that :)
I think the reason people put newbies down is that the old "Elite - Lamer" mentality still lives for some reason.. I put down stupid people, and if they happen to be a newbie, that's all the better cause then i have something to mess with them about ;)
If a potential lo-res or hi-res artist decided to give up drawing because someone in either #ans, #ansi, or #ascii ridiculed them, they would only show that they lacked the commitment necessary to become an established artist in the first place.
crayon : yeah, but this 'pak' guy has been put down alooot.. but he's become something of a mascot as i see it now.. everyones like.. kidding about him beeing newbie.. even him..i dont see any real newbies anymore..
Too bad scene kids can't handle taking nor giving (constructive) criticism.. the only thing scene kids do is tell people how much they suck, instead of try to encourage the person in question.. and if someone DOES try to help, alot of kids just get pissed at you and go berserk and hate you for the rest of their scene days or something..
Pariah has a point. But if banning a newbie from an 'elite' scene channel is constructive in any way, I'll eat my balls for breakfast.
crayon : is he.. oh..heh didnt know that.. but hey yeah..that poop annoyed me too..
heh i think pak's okay... he's a bit loopy, but he'll get the hang of it... meanwhile he's doing something really productive.
By Dangermouse on Monday, January 4, 1999 - 10:02 pm:
That brings me to another point which I raised in another thread. Why do some people insist on bagging new people that come into the channels, say #ansi, #ascii or #ans? Surely this can only be seen as a rather stupid thing to be doing, flaming the very people which the scene could depend upon.
And people who request art? Hhaha.. Oh, here's a rich one..
<art_dude> Can anyone draw me a logo?
<artist_1> Wtf is in ANSI?
<artist_2> Fuck off dickhead... etc..
<artist_1> I swear, I don't know what ANSI is, try #gaysextoys.
This may seem a little silly, but that does in fact happen in quite a few channels -- shit, even I am guilty of it, and looking back feel pretty bad about it. For a scene that complains about there not being any BBSs to draw for and what not, flaming would-be 'clients' seems to be pretty counter productive..
Anyways, what are your thoughts on this matter?
By Nightstalker on Tuesday, January 5, 1999 - 01:18 am:
By Leo on Tuesday, January 5, 1999 - 08:01 am:
By The Night Angel on Friday, January 8, 1999 - 09:37 am:
New aritsts are actually a good thing for the scene. Now quit talking about it. Geez. :)
And I don't call people who keep begging for ansis newbies. They are just people who needs ansis badly. :) I mean, why could you get into the scene without drawing? I never quite understood that. Some people have been in the scene without drawing, writing lit, or tracking. I really don't get it. Please someone explain me. :)
By Eto on Friday, January 8, 1999 - 11:36 am:
-Eto.
By Moleql on Tuesday, January 19, 1999 - 06:58 am:
By Maestro on Tuesday, January 19, 1999 - 07:52 am:
I'm glad I went through that because it felt really good to turn around and say "LOOK AT ME NOW YOU LAME FUCKS! WHO'S DA MAN?! WHO?@# I'LL TELL YOU WHO?!@ ME!@#$" to all of those kids that said I would be laughed out of the scene if I ever tried to get involved.
Needless to say, proving all those people wrong was the absoloute highlight of my ansi scene time.
By Sephiroth on Wednesday, January 20, 1999 - 07:32 am:
By Maestro on Wednesday, January 20, 1999 - 09:31 am:
By Sephiroth on Wednesday, January 20, 1999 - 10:21 am:
and like..that can be a good thing too..cause when i was on bbs's.. i'd never dream of drawing ansi.. i mean..you guys where just TOO fucking good.. i could never be even close to that. i drew some vga's and shit.. but that didnt have the same feeling.. but when i started ircing i gave ansi a try.. and like..ppl like zII and bym showed me what was wrong and stuph..and i kindof got the hang of it..
By Crayon on Wednesday, January 20, 1999 - 11:48 am:
But actually, I don't think we see much of this shit in say #ans (i don't hang out in #ansi, cause i'm so cool and trendy and don't like axiom) i mean, there aren't all that many newbies around really.. after about a week you know everyone who comes to #ans.. it's pretty sad really, #ansi used to be full of guys you've never heard of (back in my day that is :) and of course.. art begging was a much bigger thing to be annoyed back then, cause someone was begging every five minutes.. nowadays i think only older guys mess with beggers, cause it's still programmed into their subconcious to mess with 'em.. or i dunno, i'm stupid. look at me, i'm a deranged swede who only draws badly shaded circles and squares.
By Pariah on Wednesday, January 20, 1999 - 06:00 pm:
Although it's not nearly as professional, the computer art scene is actually a lot more inviting to new artists than the real (non-computer based) art scene is. All groups (even the ones that claim to be invite-only) accept applications, and the very nature of the computer art scene really eliminates any form of discrimination in the process; talent is what matters, not race, gender, or sex. All things considered, if someone actually devotes their time to becoming a reputable lo-res/hi-res artist, they'll be inclined to use any criticism they encounter early on as motivation and not as a reason to give up.
By Sephiroth on Thursday, January 21, 1999 - 12:30 am:
and pariah : thats really true, criticism should be a good thing.
By CrayONOFF on Thursday, January 21, 1999 - 09:42 am:
seph: ummm, pak is as far as i know permbanned from #ans.. isn't he? I never saw him act up, well.. his "poop" shit did get annoying though :P
By Dangermouse on Thursday, January 21, 1999 - 01:51 pm:
By Seph on Friday, January 22, 1999 - 11:18 am:
and i agree on that other shit too.. i mean.. ive tried to help a few ppl..and all they say is 'I DONT WANT YOUR FUCKING HELP, I KNOW HOW TO DRAW'..
and like..two minutes earlier they asked me to tell me what i thought of the shit..they only wanna hear good stuph..
By Dieznyik on Monday, January 25, 1999 - 09:05 pm:
this differs from something like sadist, which in my view, is not thought out at all... just another 'lets start a group' type thing. pak's group pak [now how funny is that?] has a purpose [as no one would download that crap otherwise =) ]
people dont fucken think yo! ban the guy, but dont perma-ban someone that wants to change.