Is it possible to perfect the art of Ansi? I dont feel it is, but myself and Radman had an interesting argument tonight (03/05/99) on it. I feel that there is no way to master ANY artform, be it visual (painting/ansi) musical, literary or physical (martial arts, etc). Radman obviously disagreed, and we both would like to get some more feedback on the topic.

I dont feel its actually possible to master any form of art for the simple reasons that art is not a static thing. Its constantly changing, evolving, new styles being introduced, new talents adding all of the above in a completely new and influential way. I told him i thought there was no such thing as a person who has mastered Ansi. Radman retorted by saying people like Somms, JED, Icey, Tempus Thales, etc, all mastered the artform. I told him that each had room to improve, not that I had something to teach them, but that if they kept drawing, they would get better than they were before. The more they drew, the better they'd get. Thats not to say that there aren't personal limitations, but reaching that limitation does not mean you're a master. Radman thought nothing of it, by saying the following:

radman_>> I think Somms was an ANSI master who mastered the artform of ANSI.
radman_>> Quote me.

:) .. Anyway. For another couple of points, if there was one person who could be considered a 'master' in their respective field, it would be Bruce Lee for martial arts. He felt himself that there was always room to improve, and he has yet to have an equal. We can also agree that a Swordsmaster of centuries past wouldnt be able to hold a hair to a Swordsmaster today, because styles of fighting have changes, techniques have changed, THE ARTFORM HAS CHANGED... The same can be said for ansi. People have been drawing on canvas for x number of millenia, and there has yet to be a master of that. Who has the gall to think that in the 10 years or so of Ansi art, that someone has even close to mastered the medium?

Radman asked #ans what they thought, but only Retribution and Sinister6000 had anything to add. Hopefully, there will be a little more feedback here. What are you're thoughts on the matter?

Oh, and Radman, i'm neither a newbie OR afraid to post about this. Rather than taking a few personal swipes at me, why dont you just argue? :)

- luminous / avengecult

ermm, i'm sure many of you don't know me because i am indeed a newbie.. however, i kinda feel the urge to comment here. to think that ansi (or any artform for that matter) can be 'mastered' is ridiculous.

for example;
recently, i was looking through some old artpacks from about 1996, and i noticed that back then, alot of artists were doing anime pics (moreso than today) and needless to say they definately had style and finesse.

also, i saw a more recent pic of a very realistic face done in greyscale (didn't seem to catch the artist or even the pack)..

i don't think any artist could do a 96 style anime pic, then turn around and do realism, then grasp color schemes like dieznyik for instance.. i guess what i'm saying is, to master an artform, you'd have to be *the* best in EVERY area of that artform, and they're all so diverse, i don't see how that's possible.. besides the fact that tastes vary. what looks good to one artist may not look as good to someone else.

you can't master art, you can only follow it.

Right.. there is no such thing as "perfection" in art, for the simple fact that there is no one standard to compare to. Art isn't a skill, and there isn't really a "best". You can't put artists head to head street-fighter style and see who comes out on top, because it is an art.

An analogy I just thought of is that art is a geometrical plane. There is no center, no peak, no low or high end. It's.. whatever happens to be made. A person can create their own coordinate system, and decide by that what is best, what is most perfect, but no one will place their axes exactly where another does, although many may have similar placements. A skill, however, like fighting, playing baseball, or maybe even accuracy of drawing, is something that can be tested, judged bad or good, effective or ineffective, and mostly be agreed upon. These things can be seen as simply a line.. one end being closer to "perfect" and the other closer to "terrible". And of course, there is no absolute perfect to these concepts, no end to the line. They can only be compared relatively.

However, there have been lots of artists in the past that have been labelled "masters". I suppose this is through general agreement by historians that they achieved a high level of technical skill and contributed something great to the history of art.

That said, I don't see anything wrong with labelling former ansi artists like somms as "masters", at least if it's something that's widely agreed upon. Of course there's no such thing as perfection. Anyone who's a master is only a master because many people believe it is so. It is not some tangible plateau to be reached.

Thats what I'm trying to say.. I agree that the artists Radman mentioned were amazing, but i dont feel that they have completely mastered the artform, because i dont think its possible. Labelling people whatever they feel like wont really change the fact that i dont feel that a medium CAN be perfected. Since its not static, there's no way to draw the line at a certain point, and say that it cant get ANY better than this.

Putting a few artists head-to-head street fighter style would be entertaining, however. =) But thats exactly it. The way the medium is so completely different, means that there's no way to compare/grade on an overall perfection level. Putting artists like dieznyik next to Somms or Tempus Thales does absolutly no good, their respective styles arent the same, and you can't really compare apples and oranges. Sure, you might have a preference for one, but that in no way means its better.

Likewise, someone who loves Somms' art could think that he's a master, while someone else might have hated certain things about his art, and disagreed completely. Its too opinionated for their to be an impartial judge to define perfection. Coupled with the fact that the artform will change, there's just no way to state there has been someone who's mastered the medium.

- luminous / avengecult

you can't master art. trying to say you can master an artform is like saying you can count to the last number. it's impossible. and who's to say when somethings mastered? i guess you can use that lame "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" line about art. if you showed 50 people a somms ansi, and the same 50 people a tempus thales ansi, you'd have a buncha people saying somms was the master, and a buncha people saying tempus was the master.

but hey, in the artistic sense... the masters never mastered anything really... just had enough influence and a personal style defined enough to qualify them for that status.

i mean, i'd think im an ansi master, in my own little niche [psychadelism? =) ] ... but then again i dont think anyone else draws this shit.

i just dont see the use in taking the term 'master' literally. again, in an artistic context, dont it just mean REALLY GOOD? van gogh could have improved, but he had his shit together, did he not!

i am a colour scheme? =) its not really a scheme when im usin every colour i can =)

Legends such as JED, Somms, and Tempus are all in classes of their own. IMHO to translate some else's artwork, such as comic-work into the ANSI medium requires skill first, and artistic creativity second.

For example, if I were to give you a comic book cover and a finite space to translate that picture into, such as an 80x25 screen, I would dare say that it is possible to master that workspace to such a degree that it can not improve.

This is the principle of my argument. Discuss amongst yourselves. =)

-R

But its not really possible to say that, because people interpret the same picture different ways, and the way i could draw a comic rip would be completely different from the way somms'd draw one. Not to mention since styles would be different, you'd have to take all the current and future styles into account,when basing the peice of perfection. Its just not possible.

- luminous / avengecult

radman: the only person that COULD master and perfect ansi is god, if he or she exists. by definition god is the only perfect thing in the universe, and he/she is the only one that can achieve "perfectness".

i do not believe in god, and so i do not believe that perfect things can be achieved. sure, you can get 100% on a test, but that's different. perfect is defined in that case. perfect is not defined for ansi, or any other form of art. every artist or viewer defines their own 'perfect'.

let us consider this scenario: there is only one ansi artist in the world. he is the best artist in the field, since he is the only one drawing. is he perfect? no. just because he is the best artist doesn't mean that he's perfect, or that he has perfected the artform. of course, some people might think so. they might think that his art is great. the fact however, is that he is NOT perfect. the same thing will be true if there were TWO ansi artists in the world. some people would say that one is better than the other, others would claim the opposite. some would even say that one of them perfected the artform. the fact, again, is that none of them are perfect. who's not to say that somebody, out there, who is not drawing, could do better? you can't assume that such a person does not exist.

just because something has been done well, doesn't mean that it can't be beaten. many world records are broken every year.

in conclusion, an ansi can not be perfect for two reasons. 1) different people have different definitions of the word 'perfect'. different people also like different things. 2) doesn't matter what your definition of perfect is, there is always a possibility of doing something better.

if an artform could be perfected, we'd all be listening to the same kind of music, we would all like the same movies, and we would all like the same kind of pussy. (if there are any girls reading this, change pussy to dick:)

Sure there's masters at ansi like God explains who are known from
skills, new ideas (abstract too, not just visible) , new styles, colouring & ways to "pixel ansi" into the public's (read:scene) acceptance thou that might not happen immediately)..

nothing to do with b&w thinking as "who's better than others".

>since styles would be different, you'd have to take all the current and future styles into account,when basing the peice of perfection. Its just not possible.

well put. "perfection" as a concept is a joke =). somms colouring is very boring for me compared to Konami's (that i really like =).

imo, in ansi history i'd consider JED, Somms, and Tempus as masters because the skills of translating images & making the rules for a "great work" for others to *Follow* (also developing the medium).
Lord Jazz for creativity & skills (as he could draw everything he would like), diez for breaking up the everything-must-be-comix rule (all those new patterns, abstract works, colors etc.), eerie for fonting & ideas,
Soi for naive stuff & collases.. and so on...

well that's my fast list of masters at ansi that came into the mind in a minute. ofcos i forgot many great guys (that's because i've not liked their stuff that much i could remember 'em (or i've not followed packs that much). you might know those who really earn the respect.
.
lately when checked the new packs (with only a few exceptions) all i can say is people are really lazy with all that lame fonting & other fast stuff compared to the old times.. the same comixshit wubble-wobble fiddle-foddle is done 100% better years ago imo... compare to guys like n3ur0t1c =)

There is a very big difference between "mastering" an artform and "perfecting" it. In the ansi scene, perfection should be thrown out the window. There is no such thing as a perfect ansi artist, and there never will. There have, however, been many who have mastered the artform. By saying master, I mean they have been at the forefront of the style present in their time, and invented new styles. This definition of mastery, is somewhat subjective.

And no, somms doesnt rise to the definition of "master" imho..
The only ansi master I can think of off-hand, is of course, JED.

Argon

jed? why jed? i think jed was good, but he wasn't that spectacular. i think tempus and lord jazz would be a few who could say that really could draw ansi better than just about anyone. why? what couldn't they draw? tempus drew anything and everything. he could draw some amazing animations, and he had shading styles that were just unbelieveable. not to mention his fonting skills (i LOVE 94 and back fonts).

to be a really skilled ansi artist, i think you should be able to draw just about ANYthing. wether it be spawn, or a guy sitting in a chair, or a bird, cow, car, computer, hand, tree, a bucket of chicken, washing machine, window, whatever. i don't think someone is godly just becuase they can convey a good copy out of a comic book. if you want a more recent example of GOOD art check out bym-303.ans in the plf pack. it was uttlerly amazing.

Question, if they had it down to perfection, then wouldn't that make them a god?

i mainly agree with God Among Lice's reference to points on a line. in art, there will be some pieces that are closer to a relative 'perfect' and closer to a relative 'crappy', in both cases the key word is relative. as many of us have stated before, interpretation of art depends mainly on the individual artist.
allow me to use lit as another example. many people argue that the raven by edgar allan poe is the greatest poem in american history. personally, i like the jabberwocky by lewis carroll. if you've read both, you know that they are distinctly different styles. i see them as equally good, but the point is, could carroll have written the raven, and could poe have written the jabberwocky? could nathaniel hawthorne, author of the scarlet letter, have written either? this all goes back to the argument about diversity in style and genre within an artform. ANSI isn't just ANSI, it is indeed an artform, and therefore can always be improved upon in one way or another.

slack: lewis carroll was english, not american 8)

filth: jed, because he went beyond the superficial familiarity with the medium that most moderately-successful ansi artists have, got deep into its inner workings and made it do things which haven't been touched since.

Arguing about opinions is an art. Look at us, we can all show a different point. Because it is ALL BASED ON OPINION! Some people say I suck, many actually, but I think I've come a long way and I'm not a bad artist. Some things I draw jump out at me and they are bad ass, to me. Other people hate them. Rad man is right in his eyes, others are right in their eyes. Why do we argue opinion. ACiD SUCKS WITHOUT ANSI. thats my opinion =)

tee_are
purg productions
tr@purg.com

Filth: JED arguably invented the rules of toon shading as we know it imho, and had a big hand in opening up a new genre with ansi movies.

I dont think talent in just transferring images from physical reality makes you a great ansi artist. Doing something with the ANSI format no one else has thought of before, and doing it well, is what truly makes you great, hence JED.

what i find amazing about JED is, even with all the progress ansi artists have made using the medium, no one has been able to top what he's done. forget about topping what he's done, no one has been able to even MATCH what he's done. lord jazz is another artist that i look at in the same light. those two right there are two genuine ansi legends and as real as they come baby.

I have one thing to say.

Mastering something is only comparable to those around you.

ah, fuck perfection.

who can achieve the state of wikkitnezz =)

and its so sad... i think i might have seen one jed ansi in my life. waha =)

where is his stuff... i know, acid... but what era? i'll slap some of his stuff on vtag if i like any of it. [when i do my next vtag update... mid-april i think]

I think there's a big difference between mastering art, and mastering the medium.

Someone could, for instance, master the medium of oil paint, by knowing how to mix the colors, what oils to add, how to blend the colors, how to layer the paint, etc. But I don't think anyone ever masters ART.

Forgive me if this is irrelevant, I just kinda skimmed the above messages.

dieznik:
"and its so sad... i think i might have seen one jed ansi in my life. waha =)

where is his stuff... i know, acid... but what era? i'll slap some of his stuff on vtag if i like any of it. [when i do my next vtag update... mid-april i think]"

Most of his ansis are like 1MB ansimations.... how are you going to display that on vtag?

Leo

I don't think Jed was an ansi master... If we're saying masters are people who were some of the best ever, I'd hafta go with Somms, Lord Jazz, and that guy whose symbol was the transformer head... His name escapes me right now :). But I also think we have guys who are just as good today. Egoteq, Maestro, and Reanimator are on the same level, imo.
BTW, I agree that it's impossible to "master" an artform :).

You know sitting here on easter sunday I thought I could spread some holiday cheer but instead I think some holiday jeer is needed. I have basically cut myself away from the ansi medium totally now just rarely poping in #ans and grabing the latest packs and here is where I get negative. Since the begining of the year you guys have been talking about doing originals, all I have seen is original grade a shit, true there are some exceptions to this rule but im not gonna sit here and kiss ass and say well this guy doesn't blow goats but the rest of you do. If you know me, You know what I think about your art on a monthly basis, If you don't well fuck you for being clueless. I know i'm stepping out of line hell i don't even play with low rez blocks, but i know what i like to see and I know what I don't. An frankly I don't like what the fuck I see. Maybe you guys should think about going bi monthly cause you can't cut it on a monthly routine anymore. Wanna impress me do something good and original. Wanna impress me stop saying your all that and that you are the art scene. Wanna impress me ? right now as I see it , I probably am going to cause one hell of a fight with this text, and you know what i don't care anymore. Even if im a jabronie in this arguement maybe someone will get what is so crystal clear. Hood has a good idea when you get their bi monthly pack you see all good shit, you know why cause they spent the time on it but you know you gotta release on time, gotta release on the 1st, so I guess you gotta keep sucking big fat donkey cock. Then I hear all this I'm calling you out to a ansi duel shit. What's up with that? It's not like any of you kids really could give up this shit. Hell I'm probably one to talk, you'll just get a new idenity learn a new talk and be back right in till someone finds your ass out Some people may say well hey I got room to talk all I am is some lit kid or that's what you think, sure i do some other art but why the would you care, cause it certainly isn't lowrez. Some may say oh well i got a life, well yay kudos for you, we all have one what we choose to do is our own fault.
So you want to do something original then do something worth while. Otherwise Keep on trying your ansi perfection, but original's aint cutting it at least with comic rips u had a chance to leech off of other ideas that are good and do something with it. I ain't out here looking for any Peace . Flame away kids this is all I have to speak. Just remember this was all said out of disappointment on what I have seen. Maybe my expectations are too high or your standards or too low.

you know perfection doesnt exist.. radman is very wrong in saying that. even the earlier mentioned bruce lee would never admit that he has mastered martial arts.. for him and the true student of the art.. you never stop learning. in fact you continue to learn even as you teach. your obligation to your teacher is to pass on the knowledge that you've learned. and ive learned a few things on the art scene. for starters i dont think it was necessary for bluedevil to go nuts on that message but there was some truth to what he said. now a couple years ago i wrote an article in acid news defending ansi's place as "a good art medium".. which is true. i like ansi. it is fun and satisfying to draw with.. however i will admit that ansi really has no place outside the underground art scene. the difference between oils and acrylics and digital art is that the latter advances. in computer art people expect more, better, more colors, higher resolution, because it is machine made. the better computers get the more advanced the the art medium becomes (not the technique but the medium).. as far as oils and acrylics, you can add stuff like charcoal and ink and other mediums to them but it comes down to tangible art. a canvas or a piece of cardboard or whatever. my point is that regular people look at paintings from the 1500's and paintings today.. and besides the fact there are some advances in paint texture and stuff like that... they have been the same resolution over the span of five hundred years... if you wanted to paint a photo-like face in the 1500's you could do it.. just as good as you could today.. however when it comes to digital art.. you can not draw a life like face in ansi (shut up. you cant. you have 80x25 rez for gods sake) but you can draw a life like face in say 800x600 rez. so to the average person, the more advanced the medium, the better it is. people look at cavemen drawings and think "primitive".. then look at paintings from the renaissance and think "sophisticated"... ansi looks "primitive" and hirez looks "sophisticated"... THEREFORE, it is wise that people quit calling themselves MASTERS OF ANSI and what not and acting all tough because outside of the art scene no one cares if you are. if you are drawing ansi for personal enjoyment that is fine (and if you are drawing for personal enjoyment then you'd better not be proclaiming your self to be an ansi god and try to pull rank on others).. but ansi is only useful as that.. to draw for personal enjoyment because no one is going to buy ansi. and you certainly cant get a job with it. as long as people accept that ansi is a dated art medium and is only popular within an underground scene then im happy.

now before you say "YOU CAN DRAW WONDERFUL ART WITH ANSI IT DOESNT MATTER HOW OLD THE MEDIUM IS YOU CAN STILL DRAW KICKASS ART WITH IT".. i agree.. of course you can.. just look at somms and tempus thales.. but that was years ago.. if you want to really show off and impress people then you need to move on to hirez. if you dont.. and you are drawing nothing but ansi and bragging about how awesome you are.. then you are only fooling yourself.. the only people that are impressed are younger kids on the ansi scene.

i respect people who draw ansi because they still enjoy to do it.. not to impress others. and no one can be perfect at this because the boundaries of an art form such as ansi can not be defined.. even if the general public has turned its back on it. (now if more hirez artists would stop rendering basic 3d objects and do some more original design)

this is really starting to run on but the basic point to all this is: if you draw ansi and brag about how great you are, you are only fooling yourself. no one outside the underground art scene cares about ansi. its like comparing cave drawings to picasso. and the opinions of an outsider like bluedevil is important, because usually the only opinions you get of your art is from other ansi artists. you cant force people to like your stuff, they'll like it on their own terms.

i might have made some contradictions in here.. its really late at night but anything i said that doesnt make sense i have an explanation for so just give me a reply on here. lates. sodium[cia]

First of all.. drawing life like doesn't mean that it's good art. Art is based on giving impressions. Second of all, you can do good life like faces in ansi with the right technic. Higher resolution gives more photolike pictures, but it does not make the art more life like, life is about living, and higher resolution doesn't make the art live more, skill does.

The hirez art released in packs within the hirez scene doesn't impress me for 50 cents. But a good ansi or oil/acrylic painting does.. ansi and ascii has something that the hi-rez art doesn't have, and that is the sleigt touch of bohemian art. Ofcourse there is lots of shit produced in all art categorys but ansi art gives me a feeling that i've never seen acomplished in photoshop or 3d studio. And i think that feeling is one of many reasons why ppl stick to ansi.

GOD DAMN IT. WHY DON'T PEOPLE LIKE YOU READ?!#@
i said, and i quote:

"now before you say 'YOU CAN DRAW WONDERFUL ART WITH ANSI IT DOESNT MATTER HOW OLD THE MEDIUM IS YOU CAN STILL DRAW KICKASS ART WITH IT'.. i agree.. of course you can.."

the idea that "better rez means better art" was not the point of my arguement... im not that stupid and defintly not that ignorant. and our faces are not made out of 80x25 low rez blocks.. in fact the truth is, true life like faces can not be created on computers yet because when it comes down to it, digital art is little, little blocks. anyways, i just said that people like to look at a more developed medium. that is why people dont sell crayon drawings for 50 million dollars, they sell paintings. that is why computer games and web pages use hirez instead of ansi.

the point of my text was saying that ansi is valuable as a medium to create works for personal enjoyment and indulgence and satisfaction (thats what art is supposed to be about), but it is not a commercially viable format such as BMP or GIF..

almost every piece of work created on the scene is an advertisment for something, whether it be a website or a bbs. my earlier post was slamming people who create ansi, think they are successful graphic artists because of it, brag to everyone about how great they are, act all tough, etc.. etc.. when the truth is no one cares how good your ansi is, you are bragging to a bunch of people on irc. big deal. impressive.

i draw ansi because i like to draw ansi and it gives me satisfaction. but i dont go around proclaiming to be some wonderful graphic designer with it, because that is stupid. ansi essentially has no place outside this art scene, since no one outside the art scene has the patience or knowledge to appreciate it. i appreciate it because im part of this scene. i like ansi. i dont like loudmouth ansi kids who think they are better than everyone. thats all.

read a post before you reply.

if i get any more replies trying to slam me on points i did not make or things i did not say then i will start killing people. #ansi will be first. :)

quote
The hirez art released in packs within the hirez scene doesn't impress me for 50 cents. But a good ansi or oil/acrylic painting does.. ansi and ascii has something that the hi-rez art doesn't have, and that is the sleigt touch of bohemian art.
end quote


Like i said i knew this would be coming but i'd like to ask you first a question before i go any further how much hirez do you download, and when was the last time?

oh we all had a long talk with him on irc and he took back his statement that people like hirez better than ansi.

Bd, heh.. ofcourse that statement should come. When ppl talk about the ansiscene everybody is saying that it's dying and that it have to move on. In the discussion i had with sodium yesterday he described ansi as an stadium of the digital art evolution and that hirez is more evolved and reeches a bigger audience.

My point was that lowrez and hirez aren't the same thing. Lowrez scene has a more intressting way of handle the artform in my opinion. That's why i enjoy ansi more than hirez. I dont follow the hirez scene actively but i've watched some hirez produced by the big groups in say 3 years time and it hasn't impressed me as an artform. That's why i cant give as much resepct to the big names in the hirez scene as i can give the "masters" in the lowrez scene. And that is why i replyed on sodiums post.

What most people like is a diffrent matter. Most ppl dont know what the spirit of the lowrez scene is, soo ofcourse they cannot like ansi more. It was an unthoughful statement by me. What i really ment was that if ppl whould get more involved in the lowrez scene they whould realise that it has something that the hirez scene hasn't. And therefore give more respect to the medium.

"Maestro, and Reanimator are on the same level, imo"

Count,
Thanks, but unfortunately I never quite made it to the level I always wanted to be at. I'm all about consistancy and in my personal opinion that's something I never had with my stuff. I wanted a look to my ansis that everyone could tie in to my name and I don't think I ever achieved that (besides my lame logos that people used to bite off of back in the day :) ). I spent my entire ansi time searching for "the right look" and the closest I ever came to finding it was in my final days during The Legion era. Reanimator on the other hand I'll have to agree with you on. He has one of the most distinguishable styles in the scene today. Everytime he'd submit an ansi for The Legion pack I would just sit there and stare at it thinking to myself "how the hell did he think up that combo? he's a genius!" In order for me to ever even consider working in a group enviroment again, reanimator would have to be a part of it.

"gotta release on the 1st, so I guess you gotta keep sucking big fat donkey cock. Then I hear all this I'm calling you out to a ansi duel shit."

BD,

I completely agree with you. I've always believed that quality comes first. Too bad most of the little fan boy ansi scenesters couldn't grasp that concept when The Legion was keeping the scene in check.


aNSIkIDDY> "WHERE IS THE LEGION PACK?!@ IT'S THE 1ST AND YOU GUYS ARE LATE!@?"

maestro> "What are you talking about? We're not late, you're just early!"

aNSIkIDDY> "FUCK YOU YOU ASSHOLE! YOU'RE SUCH A FUCKING DICK!"

That was the type of lame ass mentality we had to deal with from not only some of the new kids, but guys that have been involved in the scene for YEARS and if were real ansi artists would respect the fact that we cared more about what our art looked like and less about pleasing the masses with cute little release dates. Dorks.

Anyone that gives in to the "pressure" of what all the other kids are telling you to do is what the word "lamer" was created for.

"I don't think Jed was an ansi master... If we're saying masters are people who were some of the best ever, I'd hafta go with Somms, Lord Jazz, and that
guy whose symbol was the transformer head... His name escapes me right now :)."

I dunno c0, I consider Jed up there with somms, LD, etc.. because although his shading and detail wasn't the best, he really took ansi to the limits with his ansimations.

Leo

I've been pretty involved in both the ansi and hirez scene, and one have given me as much as the other. I download LOTS of both ansi and hirez packs every month. Currently I have 2 CDs from the last 2 years. My first year in the scene I only drew ansi, and after that I've been drawing both ansi and vga.

I understand that you who are really good at ansi are the best in the entire world, since no one else is doing it. While hirez artists are often topped by pros, there are still _loads_ of good artists in the hirez scene that could easily become professional. In fact, a lot are professionals. As Sodium said, it's like comparing caveman paintings with Picasso for the uninitiated. No one outside the artscene cares.

You ansi doodleboys that say that the ansi scene gives more, that people who aren't involved don't understand and that most hirez art suck, how involved are you in the hirez scene?

Maestro heh gee thanks :>. Bym when was the last time you actually downloaded a hirez pack, do you know about what is all out there today furthermore
do you realize vga art itself has several categories. You said ansi should be appreciated for the time put into the art, well you know Hirez takes a long time too, several hours if not days' hell with people as highly involved as leo it takes him almost a month just to do one :D, still how can i respect a medium when timing is pushed more and quality isn't. Just to meet the deadline that doesn't cut it. If you just wanna release shit then break out ol thedraw and use t fonts cause hell its to the same extent, half ass the quality of your art in order to meet a timed release should be unacceptable, especially because now ANSI art is only done for the shear appreciation of it as it serves no real value to it anymore. It's like the horse, we keep it around for its majestic image. That's it. So either take the time to do the right thing or dont sit around and tell me how u do the wrong thing

BD - how long does it take you to write a poem?

the guy 'round the corner from my house running an adult access dialup ezycom ripped ansi system is an ansi master, he just doesn't know it yet.

i skipped most of the text, but i noticed that somebody said that egoteq was/is at the same level as lord jazz, maestro, and.. i think, grimlock?

i don't mean to put egoteq down, i've met him, he's a cool guy, but i've never REALLY liked his art (i don't hate it, i just don't think it's that great). i don't think it's nearly as good as some of the stuff my favourite artists put out (or used to put out).. namely corinthian, samurai, tainted, snake grunter, and tgh (off the top of my head). i know that i haven't been checking the packs lately, but.. since we're talking about perfection, i thought i'd mention some of my favourites.

i've been looking at ansi since late 1992, and i guess i've forgotten lots of the old greats, so that list is actually pretty recent. i remember liking lord jazz, #28, nailz, uhm, i can't really remember. i'm not too sure whether these guys are as good as some of my current or recent favourites,... maybe... maybe i just haven't seen any of their stuff recently and can't really form an opinion.

and no, i do not have a point.

Jed
Tempus Thales
#28
Lord Jazz
Somms
Neuotic
Nailz
Deeply Disturbed
Aphex Twin
Kamikazee
Toon Goon
Shaggy
Incubus

Those are a few off the top of my head.. I'm sure a missed a few dozen greats. I havn't really followed the ansi scene for at least 3 years so you could image how much I've forgotten and missed. One of these days (when I get a cable modem :)) I'm going to do some catching up.

Leo