after decent packs like cia#xx & project1 i wonder
the quality of the releases.
am i alone?

I dunno, but is project #1 a "decent" pack?

Hrm..

Project #1 made a statement. And it was funny.

We're going to have a surprise review of project#1 =)

but really.. a lot of groups have very mixed quality in their releases. not only this month, but always. I know some groups don't even have a QC because of some policies they have. But more groups should consider having QC or harder QC. If you're weighing between being a "top group" and a decent group it would give the group an upswing to qc.. lots of people will like it and may even generate more applications that way (since you're so good).. On the other hand some might think you have too hard qc and drop the group..

couldn't some of you share what your group policies are? just so we get an idea how much qc is used.

I know iCE practices quality control, but I'm not sure what the rate is on pics not making the pack. I don't think its very many, I think everyone in iCE knows what is expected and its rare that somthing is submitted that doesn't meet iCE's QC.

Leo

this month hrg had QC and 17 images havent passed it..

what was the point of releasing this project shit? i came to a decision last month to quit the scene.. mainly because i just cant relate anymore. over the past 2 months or so ive really gotten into alot of the better fantasy artists and traditional painters (preraphaelite and victorian mainly) you just dont see anybody in the scene really taking their 'art' this seriously. this is also why i have a problem with most 'modern' artists.. its all crap. some of you guys are doing good things.. i like leonardo and guys like sprocket/yoyo especially.. funbaby does some good stuff.. but for the most part.. computers+airbrush = crap.. including my stuff

i didnt come here to announce anything.. just seeing this project bullshit pissed me off and reinforced what ive been thinking.. im just now starting to take my 'art' seriously and these guys just made fun of everything i care about.

jae: from what you wrote, and considering that you're calling most 'modern' art crap, I guess the only art you care for is art that is a picture of something, representational. Believe it or not, a lot of people have a wider view of what art is and can be.

So what pissed you off about The Project, anyway? What's wrong with a bunch of serious artists creating something special to allow them to release something fun for once and not take themselves so seriously? It's not like this artwork is what they live for or really care about.. it's just something fun they did and they'll all go on taking the rest of their art seriously.

As for "computers+airbrush = crap" I kind of agree with you.. When it comes to creating art like you seem to like, I don't see too much of a point in creating it on a computer, when it can all be done with traditional methods. I guess the positives would be that it's less of a mess, easier to correct mistakes, and it's a cheaper way of trying out many different materials and methods (unless you're one of the backwards people still trying to create freehand art with just the photoshop airbrush).

Now.. when you talk about seriousness in art.. Here's how I think of things. A serious artist is one who is trying to innovate, trying to create new forms of art itself. What does the fantasy artist actually do? Yea, they take their technique very seriously, and they probably have a pretty good imagination for creating interesting fantasy subject matter, but what do they actually contribute to the furtherment of art? All they're doing is giving us a bunch of examples of the same basic thing.

Anyway.. the whole point of The Project as was obvious to me, was to make fun of bad computer art, and I guess in the process the whole range of clueless kiddies that exist out there. Now.. are you saying that what you care about is bad computer art? Or if you thought that the point was to make fun of all computer art, or all art period.. then I think you seriously missed the entire point of the release.

well jae you've gained new level =). no, project1 was'nt nothing new, same stuff that have been since the start of the scene, i thought it was a joke. now when scene accepts modern & contemporary stuff you can expect all kinds of stuff that everyone can do somehow. that pisses me somehow because there's no "elitism" what we do anymore - i could give 5 photos to everyone in street and ask to do a photomanip in some days; believe or not but that stuff would be released on almost EVERY group.

mongi: about group qc's, i've learned that the only way to controll qc on packs is founding a new group that will *discuss*, or leave the group. the medieval tradition of dictatorship with releasing (90% of the groups) is nothing but staff deciding what to release and when. thus the packs look always "same" depending on releaser's opinions of good stuff whether he/she knows at all what looks ok.
people think "acid" "cia" or "ice" etc. are elite because of old achievements, unfortunately with hirez the quality always doesnt follow the traditions cause it's so much harder to controll.

er.. wait, it suddenly dawned on me that there are probably people out there (maybe jae included) who thought The Project was actually supposed to be serious, as if the art in there was meant to be taken seriously.

oh god, it's worse than I thought.

"well jae you've gained new level =). no, project1 was'nt nothing new, same stuff that have been since the start of the scene, i thought it was a joke."

you *thought* it was a joke, as in you now think it was serious?

god, didnt saw your message before i replied to jae..

english is perfect for politicians. if it would have been done by educated contemporary artists it would have been made seriously. but as a pack by mac&co they might have tried to get good laughs while reading the reviews or there's too much cräck smoked =). so i thought it as a joke.

generally about scene, there's too much shit all around like jae mentioned, one "project" doesnt matter to it. stuff is too weak and too ordinary.

I enjoyed the project on one side that it allowed the artist to release images that would never be released. Considering sometimes I am just in a humorous mood I do make compositions that are usually intended for nothing more than satire and as a joke. Now what is wrong with a joke? Satire is it's own form of art so to speak. Humor adds variety to things, without humor stuff would be boring :) This interjection of Humor :) was quite :] controversial heh.

Real painters are always saying that airbrushers don't make art, cos they don't tough the paper with their airbrushes, photomanipualters are always shitting that you have to use a 'real' airbrush on paper/a car/your ass.
and airbrushers(on a pc) think that photomanipulators are doing an easy job without having talent.
Hell, why the fuck did I ever replied on this childish shit?
take a rock,place it on a table, and call it art

lice:
>"A serious artist is one who is trying to innovate, trying to create new forms of art itself"

I'm curious to see a list of artists or art forms that you actually think qualify as art (ie: are innovative).

>"When it comes to creating art like you seem to like, I don't see too much of a point in creating it on a computer, when it can all be done with traditional methods"

What's the point of doing it with traditional methods when it can be done on a computer? That was the whole purpose of the computer in the first place.

>"What does the fantasy artist actually do? Yea, they take their technique very seriously, and they probably have a pretty good imagination for creating interesting fantasy subject matter, but what do they actually contribute to the furtherment of art? All they're doing is giving us a bunch of examples of the same basic thing"

Why single out fantasy art? What makes you think any other content is so original or inspired or whatever it is that you look for? What makes you think fantasy art/artists are any less valuable than other forms? Please answer this in detail.

necro:
>"take a rock,place it on a table, and call it art "

It's been done before, and is therefore non-innovative and cannot be quantified as art. Sorry.


darkmage[iCE]

Curiously enough, in general terms, the people who complain about modern art the most are the ones who understand it the least. Good modern art is extremely subtle in a very varied way, and in addition it can fuse the intellectual *and* aesthetic experience in an absolutely fantastic blend. And no, I am not talking about photomanipulation here - it really seems like a lot of you seem to at least somewhat equate the two, although I have no idea why.

Perhaps one of you great fantasy/photorealism people can answer this question: Picasso had the talent of the Great Masters as far as realistic art was concerned. He produced pieces which could easily match those. Why did he go into cubism and all sorts of other "modern art crap"? And no, it's easier is not the answer, because it isn't.

I also see a lot of people in this scene, and that's not to say everyone is clueless - I surely haven't been around enough and I barely know anyone - but, I do see a lot of people who speak poorly of modern art, yet when confronted about it reveal very little knowledge. Yuk.

*Skill* solely doesn't define art; it defines craft. Not that there is anything wrong w/craft - it's in fact, absolutely great especially in our age of "no time;" I am speculating that in fact finely crafted objects would get more valued fairly soon as objects of art due to time becoming an increasingly difficult to find commodity. However, that would still only define one *kind* of art. Like it or not, art can center on other things, such as intensity of emotion and experience, design, art theory, other intellectual subjects, self-expression, etc. NOT ONLY SKILL.

A mature, established, confident artist with a secure ego, whose art centers on skill, would not lash out towards other artists just because their work takes a different form. Since I am running out of time, I'll "cop out" and elaborate the rest of my point via a quote by Man Ray. I'm assuming people know who Man Ray is.

"I am an old man now. In sixty years you can do alot of work. I did alot of things in sixty years,
my paintings, my photography, my objects. I change all the time. I have periods were I do one thing
then for a few years I do something else. I am a free man. I do not work for a padrone, or a boss.
I am indifferent to things that do not interest me. But never would I attack them. Especially in the creative arts. Because I say anybody who does creative art is a sacred person. I do not care what he does. Whether he paints academic pictures
or he is modern or different from anything else. He cannot do any harm. Where as a bad politician
or a bad doctor or a bad cook can kill you"

Yes, there is a lot of bad photomanip art there. A *lot.* There is also a lot of horrible *photorealistic* art out there. A *lot*. If you're truly elite in what you do, you won't need to proclaim it to everyone, unless you're at an uncertain age - aren't most ppl in this scene in that very same uncertain age group, by the way?; instead, it will be *seen* in your work. That's not to say that artists who do a good job shouldn't be proud of what they do; they should. But when obsession w/eliteness becomes a primary issue..

And last but not least.. art is about the individual.. that is probably the most easily agreeable thing? Therefore.. it's about freedom.
And damnit, if I feel like gathering 6 photos off the newspapers, peeing on them, slapping them on the scanner and firing up photoshop inorder to express myself, I will. Whether the result of what I do will be good or bad.. would be a whole different issue.. but *note*.. not one depending on the *materials*.. but on me, my talent, and my skill. My skill at photomanip that is.. o O ( or maybe aiming at the scanner while peeing? ;)

By the way.. this is my opinion, and even though I will stand by it - I don't wish to start any flame wars.. :)

i wont post alot of msgs on here so i'll just dump alot of shit here..:

i didnt think project was serious.. i dont see how anyone could release crap like that and really be serious and i didnt care if it was serious or not. i saw that it was gay and a waste of my time d/ling it.

about fantasy art not doing anything to 'advance' art.. i dont really care about advancing anything. i do what i like and what i want to do. this includes fantasy.

as far as the whole 'you dont understand modern art, thats why you dont like it' thing.. thats not always true.. i know what i like.. yeah i know people have a wider definition of what art is. i dont really care though because i'm talking about me. not everyone else. sprite fights with me about that alot. hehe.. i like anything that holds some kind of meaning for me, no matter what it is but for the most part i dont like modern art because it just looks childish. i dont think it really takes any skill or talent to do alot of it. lately ive been looking into the work of a victorian artist named john godward who killed himself when picasso was starting to get famous saying that the world wasnt big enough for the two of them. the critics started to trash his work and he couldnt take it.. and that bothers me.

Jae thinks he's all that.

But he's _not_!


If he doesn't care about the project, why speak of it?

The art scene itself ain't all that. So why care?

I think that Jae is a self-centered person who needs to get some kind of lobotomy in case off, one day he could possess the power to be the king of the univers... jezzzzzz get a life, nobody cares what you think cuz you're just some piece of durt. first, if you don't understand the meaning of THE PROJECT that prouves your low IQ level. secondo, if art was still like in victorian style, that would be the most boring that could possibaly happen in art history.( you seem like a boring person too)You're so far from being a open-minded person that it's almost scary ( though you don't seem cute) and after all, our mind always reflects in our work...you're probably the kind off person who have the blank page syndrom.

dementia: understanding the meaning of THE PROJECT
means that you have a high iq?.....
The project-pack was faster removed from my hd,than it came on(maybe because I had a slow connection).....this makes me real dumb.
and I am proud of that!

I understand perfectly why some people don't like modern art. We've discussed this before in ice.

A lot of modern art is really crap. For example the guy that had put a wc in a gallery and at first people thought it sucked, and when they found out is was this famous artist they all thought it was brilliant. Now that's bullshit to me. Otherwise I'm pretty fond of modern art.

Dementia13: is there really a need to rant like that? What makes Jae stupid?

I thought the point of a discussionboard was to express your own opinions and discuss it...

btw, if you're continuing the discussion about modern art, please start a new 'modern art' thread then.

Mongi - was that WC thing a reference to Marcel Duchamp's Fountain?

'Cause that is sheer brilliance 8)

Ya just gotta have the context to appreciate the text.

Jae:
"i came to a decision last month to quit the scene.. mainly because i just cant relate anymore."

dude, I hear where you're comming from. The only reason I still stick with the scene is because I find it an easy way to get feedback on my artwork. It helps me advance as an artist to hear what other artists say about my art and give me suggestions. If you can get that kind of support elseware.. more power to ya ;)

"computers+airbrush = crap.. including my stuff"

Nine times out of ten, yes it is crap. Its when you take the digital medium to a higher level and do something original while utilizing ALL the tools that you'll get computers+art = masterpeices.

Leo

I never said that modern art was the final explination , 'cuz there is a lot of crap in everything.But the difference between classic and modern art is that sometime the meaning can be more powerfull then the look.nyway's the point of an artwork is to provoke a reaction ,even good or bad , and I think that's working!